How Rodtang Stopped Missing Weight & ONE FC Weight Cutting Secrets

James de Lacey2:00

So it'd be interesting. I think it would be what would be really interesting for the listeners is kind of maybe it doesn't have to be share whatever you can or are happy with sharing and if not, but more so okay what are those kind of common mistakes that you know some fighters are potentially making to miss weight and then what are the changes that you look to make to essentially get him back on track.

Peter Miller2:58

Yeah. So with the Rodtang situation, he missed weight against the fighter I was working with Jacob Smith and he lost his belt on the scale. And that was November 24, I think. And then it was around December time. I got a message from one of the guys from One Championship. They were like, "We want you to work with Rodtang for this fight against Teo." I was like, "Okay." I've worked with One in the past because they hired me to work with Superlek about a year previously to get him on weight. He was also fighting Teo in Japan. So had that kind of connection.

So we had an initial meeting. Obviously from a business and a fan point was like this is sick working with Rodtang. Let's do it. Had initial meeting and I think it's just with Rodtang and a lot with the Thais as well is they just don't have that nutrition knowledge. The initial meeting was about what you usually do, what how he made weight in the past and some of the things he was saying were just crazy.

He didn't eat for two weeks before he fought. He was having boiled chicken and an egg the final weeks. Never worked with a nutrition coach before and just basically winged it.

And it's my fault as someone at that level and that fame and you know most people know Rodtang is and they're still doing things like that way. So when I look at things like that it's like I'm only going to have a positive impact. There's only I can implement a couple of things and it's going to make a difference.

It can't get worse. And I was trying to impulse like what was what would be the best way to work with him because me giving him a meal plan and you've got to cook this or you and the language barrier. So I was what's the best way for me to do this and make it as simple as possible. And one of the things I thought about was using a meal prep company.

So there's a meal prep company in Thailand called Pure Prep. So, I've used them before when I have fighters in fight week in Thailand. They you can kind of build your own box and perfect for fight week meals that you know especially in Thailand where there's not a lot of options. So, I've had that connection with them before.

So, reached out and say look want you to work with us for Rodtang's camp. So, I said to Rodtang what type of food you like? He's like I like spicy food. I like beef. I like rice. I was okay. So this is this is where you know you can go really detailed and you got to do this you got to do I was right the simplest thing for me to do is get him three meals a day send it to his gym the calories are calculated they're all weighed out etc give him that I know based on what he's told me he's probably still going to maybe deviate off the plan slightly so as long as I give him the fundamental you know the basics the breakfast lunch dinner we and kind of work off it and then we'll track over time.

For the first couple of weeks, it was definitely a bit of a challenge I think because he's never worked someone before and this English guy he's probably thinking you the you this guy. So trying to get the message across was probably a little bit difficult the first couple of weeks and didn't really establish a relationship. And I thought right well what can I do to make this relationship better where he trusts me and you know I'm not just giving him instruction giving him things to do.

So I started going to his gym once or twice a week and then that was probably the game changer for me where we started talking we started connecting and we built up a friendship where he's okay I can trust this guy now.

And then basically that that fight camp was it ended up being one of the easiest fight camps I'd ever had someone it was super super simple the weight was the weight came off really easy. And then when it came to fight week because the Rodtang thing it was just such pressure is what I'm going to make weight. He's got a nutritionist. So, it was kind of a little bit of pressure on me where, you know, this is a big deal. I can't really mess this up.

And it came to fight week and it was this feels like it should be harder than it actually was. And super easy. He was eating all on fight week. He wasn't doing that boiled chicken and an egg. He was eating we were in Japan. So, lucky with Japan where you can have the sashimi. There's really good options for fight week. So, we was eating right up until weigh-ins. He had a kilo to do on the day. He made the weight. We made the weight an hour early and then we had a couple of games of FIFA before we weighed in. This is the dream scenario.

And he obviously see the fight knock out and I think it was 80, 90 seconds and it was this is it was it couldn't have gone any better. And I think for me reflecting on that the building the relationship was vital. I feel if I wasn't here if I wasn't based in Thailand and I was an online nutritionist it wouldn't have worked. I feel it just you wouldn't have followed it.

And I think reflecting on that now, go being based here was a great decision in terms of helping him make weight again. We got a good friendship now and it's just it's interesting to see just how far behind the nutrition is in Thailand. And he's just got so far just based on pure talent and makes you think imagine he had his nutrition dialed in for the last few years or he was he was doing his S&C. It's scary to see how good like on top of actually how good he is. What I mean it's crazy.

James de Lacey8:59

When you say Thailand is behind kind of nutrition, do you have maybe some more examples of where they typically fall behind compared to maybe other countries or what they're doing differently?

Peter Miller8:59

I think it's just a lot passed down, the cultural thing with Thailand, the way they do things. I feel it's bigger than say maybe because Muay Thai has been around for a lot longer than a lot of other... there's a lot of tradition. This is how this coach did this and it's obviously similar to what happens in the West, but the nutrition knowledge is lacking and it is getting better over here.

But there's examples where fighters will run. I've seen One Championship fighters will run in a sweatsuit for maybe an hour outside and they'll come back. This is on fight week and then eat a big bowl of rice. And just the crazy things about having certain food which give you power.

James de Lacey10:06

Oh wow.

Peter Miller10:07

I have heard that though. I heard that around Eastern Europe around red meat giving you, what do they call it, I don't know, vitality before big games. I think this was... was it? It was an energy drink I think. Oh you have this and it gives you power.

And also with Thailand as well, the economic status, a lot of times haven't got that educational background. Some of them, especially in the gyms, they haven't got the access to that information in comparison to in the West where it's just a little bit different.

And it's definitely improving now because there's gyms in Thailand I work with. A gym called Venom at the moment, Venom's probably in terms of the quality of fighters that are coming through and succeeding on the One circuit and even the RWS circuit, is way above everyone else. And that's because the guy, the owner, Medi, he's like, "Right, we want to be the best gym. We need to get the best people on board." So he's hired me. He's got an S&C coach now. He's expanded the gym. He's doing different classes. He's getting a meal prep company on board.

So he's getting all them things and a lot of Thai gyms haven't quite caught up to that yet. And you can see just from the amount of fighters that are doing so well from his gym. I feel like a lot of Thai gyms now are trying to do that, but there's still a little bit... I'll give an example where there was a fighter in Thailand who's One Championship and his manager reached out to me. He's like, "We want to work here for this fight. Big fight." I was like, "Okay." We did everything. It was perfect. We caught was perfect.

And then he fought again and he thought, "Oh, I can do it myself now. I know what to do." He missed weight and he didn't fight. And I think sometimes it's like there's still that kind of like we can still do it our way and be okay. But now he's learned from that and he's been eight, nine plus camps for me now. But it's still maybe a little bit behind from the West and it's obviously from a business point of view for me that's where I come in. I'm based in Thailand, so from a business point of view it's helped me.

James de Lacey12:37

I can imagine you fill that gap and that need so well. And I think what would be also interesting for listeners is getting some of the nitty-gritty practical side around, even if we just use... we can go more general as well because I think it might be easier. But even that Rodtang example, obviously you mentioned okay beef and rice kind of three meals a day.

How does that change as they get closer to the fight in terms of what the makeup of the meal is, maybe even the macros to an extent? There's probably some nutrition nerds maybe listening who want to go a little deeper. Then how does that kind of change towards the fight to be able to make that weight I guess so easily?

What might be interesting is going into the nitty-gritty of some of the, I guess you could say, weight cutting strategies or at least making weight and even using that Rodtang example, even just more general where he's having beef and rice most of the week. How does that change as you get closer to the fight, whether that's the meals, type of meals, macronutrient breakdown for any of the more nerds out there, and how that maybe changes throughout the week to be able to make weight so easily?

Peter Miller14:39

So I kind of look at from three different parts where it's start to camp and we look how much weight they've got. Let's say they've got 10 kilos to lose in 8 weeks. So we set ourselves a target where we want to be on fight week. I'll give the Rodtang one. So say he started fight about 73 kilos and he's fighting at 61.

So my fight target for him was we want to be around 65, 66. I don't like to give really specific, we got to be around in that range. Okay, that's what we want to hit. Then we kind of work what do we need to lose a week to get to that target.

So with his meals, I get his training schedule, how much he's training a day. For the Rodtang one, when I mentioned it was, I was trying to keep it very simple. I tried to stick to the 321 principle. So 3 grams per kilogram of body mass in carbohydrates. So basically what his weight is times it by three. 2 grams per kilogram body mass of protein. So his body weight times two. And 1 gram per kilogram body mass in fat, same again just times it by one.

That's a simple structure to follow and certain days where he's having two, three training sessions, maybe we increase that carbohydrate intake a little bit more. Whereas if he's having a lower day or rest day, we can drop that down to maybe 2 grams per kilogram body mass and increase the protein and the fat. So we can tweak it from there.

And then we can see each week how much weight is he losing. Say he's losing weight too quickly, which is a good thing for fight if you're losing weight too quick, which means we can add a little bit more food and we can add a little bit more carbs, especially certain days and certain training sessions where he feels like he could have a little bit more.

Then we do that. But then say the other end of the spectrum where he's not losing enough weight though, he's not hitting the specific target, because then we okay, we need to maybe drop things down just kind of tweaking that from there. That's the basic one to go off.

And the Rodtang example, he was losing too much weight at one point. So okay, well we need to give him a little bit more. So then the meal, I contact the meal prep and go, "Oh, can we increase the portion sizes of the rice?" So I'll give an example what he was having. He was having around each meal is having around 60 grams of carbs, 35 grams of protein, 10 grams of fat, roughly around that, having that three times a day.

Then he was having a protein shake which is around 20 grams, 20, 30 grams of carbs, 30 grams of protein, quite low in fat. And then he was having some fruit throughout the day. And the thing is, well people listen, doesn't he have any breakfast or oats? Thais will eat chicken and rice, beef and rice three times a day for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It doesn't really matter. They're the kind of meals he was going for.

And then when it came to fight week, he was starting fight week at around 65 and a half kilos. So when it comes into fight week, we know he's been having X amount of carbohydrates, especially the sodium. In fight camp, because of the Thai food, the sodium intake quite high. So we know coming to fight week, as soon as we drop that sodium down, we lower the carbohydrates, we're going to lose a lot of body mass via water weight.

So when we went to, when we arrived in Japan, we started the fight... So the fight was, the weighing was on the Saturday. So on the Monday we started the fight week plan. So we started a low carbohydrate strategy which is really good in Japan. So we use sashimi and such is quite popular in Japan. So them meals are ideal.

So given an idea of what meal we give him, we were like 200 gram of salmon sashimi, avocado, maybe some nuts. Maybe he was quite happy with that, maybe two, three times a day. And then before training, we maybe give him some honey and a banana, a little bit of carbohydrates to fuel his training. And then...

His weight got down to, the day before we do. We did that for maybe three, four days. And then the final day, because from his personal preference he didn't want to cut a lot of weight. So he wanted to maybe have a little bit less the day before. Even though I was happy with him to have a bit more, he just wanted to have a little bit less.

So in the final day he only had maybe one big meal. So then it came to the weighing, the weighing morning which is about 6:00 a.m., and he had a kilo and a half to do and the rest of that was lost through active spending, running. But I could go into the details in terms of the one championship weigh-in scenario where it's probably a little bit different.

So as most people probably know with the One Championship weighing, you have to do a hydration test. So it's a little bit different in terms of a normal weighing where on a normal fight week you'd maybe water load, keep the fluid intake high and then you taper it off as you get closer to weighing.

The One Championship is a little bit different. You want to keep the fluid intake high throughout the week, even the day before weighing. So you're still drinking maybe two, three, four liters of water the day before weighing.

So I kind of give the scenario if you're cutting, say, 2 kilos normally the day before weighing, the day out weighing via active or passive sweating strategies. If you were on One Championship, you're probably adding an extra kilo, kilo and a half because you're drinking water throughout that fight week in order to pass the hydration test.

The hydration test is probably a bit of a rabbit hole to go down, but basically you've got to before you weigh in, you've got to pee in a cup and they test your pee whether it's hydrated or not. So basically when you're dehydrated your urine becomes more concentrated. In metabolic byproducts like urea, proteins. So when you're dehydrated you pee less. So that concentration of them byproducts is more concentrated in urine. So that would make you classed as dehydrated in the One Championship scenario.

To get by that, not giving the full secrets, but you'd have to drink a large bowl of fluid beforehand and then that fluid would then sit in your bladder. You probably need to pee when you're doing the weigh-in, but that's your hydrated sample. So when you go and therefore go and pee at the weigh-ins, you've passed the hydration and then you make weight.

So it's a little bit of a different process where as I said, if you're usually doing 2 kilos on a normal weighing scenario where you're tapering the fluid, and if you would have One Championship, you're probably adding a kilo, kilo and a half onto that. I hope that makes sense.

James de Lacey22:06

Yeah, that makes sense. Does that make it more challenging when obviously you're starting to drop carbohydrates so you're dropping water weight, but then if you're drinking a lot of water on top, does that make it now more difficult to continue dropping that water weight throughout the week if that makes sense, or the lack of carbohydrates just stop the water sticking?

Peter Miller22:21

Yeah, kind of a little bit like that where the weight just continues to drop. But I don't tell the fighters to drink like technically do a water load. It's basically just keeping the fluid intake high enough where you're peeing clear, you're still hydrated.

Because what a lot of fighters do on One Championship, when you get fighters new onto One Championship they'll do it the old way of tapering the fluid, or the normal way of tapering the fluid down. And then you'll hear the stories, oh you just drink a, you just chug load the water for the weigh-ins and then that's how you pass the hydration.

Problem with that is I look at as the body's like a sponge. So if you're drinking a lot of water for fight week and you're pouring water on a sponge and it's got a lot of water, when you add more, the water seeps away because there's nowhere to stick. Whereas if you're really dehydrated and you use the sponge and there's no water in that sponge and you pour that water in, it's going to absorb if that makes sense.

So these fighters will dehydrate themselves all week. They'll drink fluid and the body will just hold on to that and then they'll go and do the hydration test and they'll fail and they're like, I failed. But the method into doing it properly is keeping the fluid intake high all week. So then when you drink the fluid quite quickly, the body's going to want to reject it because you're still hydrated rather than if you're dehydrated and you want to conserve that water.

James de Lacey24:03

What is your take on water loading outside of say 1FC? Because obviously it's a relatively controversial weight cutting strategy, whether to water load or not. Is that something you would do outside of the 1FC at all?

Peter Miller24:15

So, it's definitely one of the things that I've changed my opinion on. When I started off seeing the real papers on the water, this is an effective way. And the more I've been doing this, the more I'm swaying against using it, basically not on the science, based on just the fact that a lot of people I work with just hate doing it. It's the stress of drinking that amount every day, peeing all the time.

And a big thing as well is the sleep impact. Where on fight, I want to make fight week as easy and as less stressful as possible. So if they're waking up in the middle of night peeing all night and then the next day they're groggy, then they've got to go and train or they've got media obligations, for the benefit of it, is it worth it? I'm swaying towards it's not now.

Some people like doing it and some people are used to doing it and they're pretty comfortable. If you feel comfortable doing it, that's cool. But if someone's like, 'Do I have to water load?' Someone said soon as someone says that to me, it's no, we don't. I just go, let's just keep fluid intake slightly above normal. Just keep drinking throughout the week as you usually do.

And I find that is a better strategy rather than the mental burden of going, oh you got to go and drink, especially if you're a big athlete. If you're 70, 80, 90 kilo and drinking 7, 8, 9 liters a day, it's just, yeah, I just don't see the benefit from doing it now. From a physiological point of view, the mechanism makes sense, but I'm definitely swaying towards now the practical psychological aspect of doing it.

Can someone lose more weight acutely water loading versus just tapering the water down with the sodium and the carbs? It's quite hard to measure really. I think exactly how much someone loses when they're doing a water load because obviously you're using the combination of all the low carb, low sodium, low fiber.

I've seen instances where people have water loaded and they haven't lost any weight, where they've actually put on weight, or weight just hasn't dropped, the weight just hasn't dropped. And in terms of responders and non-responders to water, definitely think there is that.

Yeah, it's quite hard to measure exactly how much, but the research that has shown, it's around 1-2%. And I think for the 1-2% difference and the burden that you're placing yourself on, is there a better way of doing things? I think there probably is.

And also I look at, say some people only the average maybe 1-2%, and then all week they're up all night, they're peeing all night, they're angry, they're moody. And then that comes the actual weight cut scenario and they're just in a place, psychologically just tired, they just want to get over and then that weight cut, the actual weight cut becomes just a weight cut because it's just been not a good week.

So I think, well if you're coming into that weight cut as best as you possibly can and you may have to cut an extra 1%, you're probably going to do that a lot easier than what you've, doing the water loading strategy where you're feeling all week if that makes sense.

James de Lacey27:53

Yeah, for sure. And it'll be interesting to actually go even deeper on this final weight cut week and we can go into post weigh-ins and even before that, strategies for people who are listening. But obviously you mentioned that little trifecta of that low sodium, low carbohydrate, low fiber to I guess help facilitate some of that fast weight loss. Be interesting to maybe go into some examples of what kind of foods and meals make up that strategy that people could implement for themselves potentially.

Peter Miller28:27

Sweet. Yes. So in terms of fight week, low carb, low fiber, low sodium meals, I'll give a template, what a meal plan template that I used to give to fighters. So something simple in the mornings would be an omelette, whether that's with some tomatoes or maybe some chicken or some beef.

That's a really simple breakfast to have on fight. Some fighters don't particularly like eggs, so something like a protein yogurt with some mixed berries and some peanut butter, that's usually also a good option.

A lunch idea. I'm a big fan of the saté chicken. One because it's quite a high calorie dish as well with the peanut sauce. And there's different variations that you can do it without adding, because typically an Asian type saté sauce has got sodium in it with the soy sauce. So we just don't add the soy sauce in that dish. That's a really good saté chicken skewers with maybe once again some avocado or some tomatoes. I tend to like having the chicken thighs over the chicken breast just for having just the higher calories.

A snack idea would again be something like a protein yogurt or another thing I like to do is make these desserts like these peanut butter cups or Biscoff cups where you add a little bit of chocolate chips. You melt it, put it in a cake dish, scoop of peanut butter or Biscoff, put it in the freezer. That is the winning snack on fight week. It gives the fighters a little bit of a psychological boost because they know they're having a bit of a treat.

And then in terms of a dinner option, one of my favorite ones that my fighters use is we have lamb meatballs or lamb or beef meatballs. So trying to have 20% fat so you're still getting it. It's a higher calorie dish because you're not having the carbohydrates at that with a tomato based sauce with some herbs and spices. And that's a really good meal.

A big thing I try and implement as well on fight week is the enjoyment of the food where you're not just eating the Rodtang example, a chicken breast and a boiled egg. How can we make fight week as enjoyable as possible? So that's a big thing I try and implement and try and think of new recipes that I can give the fighters where obviously the most important thing is having the low carb, low fiber, low sodium strategies to get that weight off, but also the enjoyment of the foods.

And that's what you see with the UFC PI now. Some of the dishes that you see on the vlogs are unbelievable because the chefs are coming up with new ideas. How can you make that fight week just that little bit more enjoyable?

Also in terms of after weighing strategies, basically depending on what you've done. Let's say you've cut 2 kilos in water weight. You've done all the fight strategies. You low carb, low fiber, low sodium all week. And then it comes to the day, the day of weighing, and you cut two kilos through your passive or active dehydration, whether that be the sauna or running.

So the first thing is getting that fluid back in. So the rehydration is the main thing. Immediately after weigh-ins you really want to be getting, say, a liter, liter and a half of fluid in the first hour. That could be water and an electrolyte solution.

The most important thing, what I tend to see now with the electrolyte brands surge, you see there's so many electrolyte brands popping up now saying this is the optimal thing for rehydration. It's making sure that sodium is the dominant electrolyte in that electrolyte brand, because a lot of them are adding potassium, calcium as the main electrolytes in that solution. And when you're sweating through actual passive dehydration, sodium is the main electrolyte lost in that sweat. So you want sodium to be the dominant electrolyte.

So something like that, water and electrolytes within the first hour. And then I like to implement a sports drink like a Gatorade or Powerade over the second hour, starting to get them carbohydrates slowly back in. And then over the next couple hours it's introducing easily digestible carbohydrates like the sports drinks, bread, jam, honey. Cereals are a good option if you're used to having cereal. Some people obviously don't really have that or have a bit of an intolerance to milk or they don't usually have that. So something simple like that over the next hour or so.

And then you want to be having your main meal. I try and say, what have you been having throughout fight camp for your lunch and dinner and stick to that simplicity? If you've been having pasta all fight camp and you've been having chicken, a chicken rice dish, okay have that as your main meal. I don't like to introduce things that you've never had before in the weighing, the post weighing scenario. Have something that you've been regularly having. So a chicken rice pasta dish, high carbohydrate meal.

And then throughout the day just keep sipping water, keep having your light snacks. And then same with the evening meal, having something once again that you've been having throughout fight camp.

A big thing that a lot of fighters do is they tend to think that, oh I just need to eat, eat. And people who've worked, they've gone, I've weighed in. I've eaten too much and then I can't eat anymore within the first couple hours of weighing. It's spacing that out across the day. It's important to not just consume everything at once, to just space it out. If you feel full, don't force anything down. Give it an hour or two. If you feel you can eat more, then go for it. But just listen to your body.

And then yeah, that kind of covers things. But yeah, you don't want to be having, keeping the fat low, keeping the fiber low post weighing because that will slow down digestion. So you don't want to be going towards anything like a McDonald's or a pizza or a burger. You still want to be keeping the fat content and the fiber low in that period. But still having foods that you've been typically having throughout fight camp as your main meals like your pastas, chicken, rices.

So in terms of a structured plan, eight weeks out. So really like what I mentioned before about you want to see what your starting weight, what's your fight, and what's the weight that we want to hit on fight week. The sweet spot's usually around like 6 to 8 percent. Some fighters sip close to 10% range. So we kind of want to work backwards and go, okay, that's where we want you to hit.

We want you to, the main thing for the fight camp is we want you to be as fueled as possible for your training sessions. So we don't want to be introducing any kind of fight week strategies eight weeks out, like low carb. We want you to be as filled as possible, but whilst also hitting your weight loss target. So as I mentioned before, the 3-2-1 principle is a good one if you're kind of unsure of where to start a fight camp.

So like a meal plan example for like the 3-2-1 would be, let's say a morning would be something simple as like oats or porridge in the morning. And then you've got a morning training session. Then post-training you would maybe something simple as a recovery smoothie with carbohydrates to recover for that future session that you'll have in the evening time. Something simple as like chicken, rice, pasta dish, like a high carbohydrate lunch.

And then pre-training, say a lot of fighters train in the evening time. So I try to give something like easy digestible carbohydrates, really simple, whether that could be some honey and banana, rice, banana and rice cakes, or maybe a sports drink, something that they can tolerate, nothing like a really big meal before the training. So I try and give that maybe like one to two hours before a big training session.

Say they have the training session 5, 6:00, they finish 8, 9:00, you want to be having carbohydrates to recover for that subsequent day. So same kind of principles with your lunch. You want to be having a high carbohydrate dinner, whether that be like a pasta dish, chicken, rice, potatoes. And then because the most important thing is you want to be recovering for the next session.

If you go low carbohydrate and then the next morning you got a really big training session, you're probably going to feel it in that session. You're going to feel probably a little bit fatigued. Maybe the one session you could get away with, but if you're constantly doing that, you're going to start noticing your training output's going to drop.

And that's what happens with a lot of fighters where you've got too much weight to cut. So then they go low carbohydrate very early on in the fight camp, so they're not adequately fueling the bodies for the training sessions. And then that's the downstream to that is they're starting to feel more fatigued in the fight camps. They haven't got the energy, but because they got so much weight to cut, you have to drop things down in order to get the weight off.

So it is important to really manage your nutrition, not just in fight camp, but out of fight camp. So you're not coming into every fight camp thinking, "Shit, I've got a lot of weight to lose now. Let's get the ball rolling. Let's have a little bit of structure outside the camp."

Yeah, in terms of that, how much is too much to lose? It's hard to give a specific number because a lot of people are really good at, some people I kind of define like some people are really good at cutting weight, some people aren't. So I've got fighters where, let's say they sit 10 kilos above the fight weight out of camp. They know, we know on fight week that they can sweat.

I've got guys who can sweat three kilos in an hour and it's like a walk in the park. So we know that from that point of view, we don't really need to diet them down super low because they're quite comfortable doing that. They've got a really good sweat rate and just the tolerance of the heat's quite good.

Whereas some people, they, the same scenario got 10 kilos, but they sweat like a, the sweat rate's awful. So we know, okay, well, we need to diet it down a bit more because we know the weight cut is going to be a lot harder comparison to the other guy.

So I think a lot of it for me is one, is it outside the camp weight, your body composition to that? I, if you're carrying around a little bit excess body fat, we've got a little bit to lose throughout fight camp, whereas a lot of people they're too lean for the weight class. They're walking around at like 12% body fat and they've got like 10, 12 kilos to lose throughout fight camp and they're just too big for that weight class.

And then like the second scenario would be, how good are you actually making that weight on fight week? Are you a good sweater? Are you, yeah, basically, can you make that weight comfortably? Yeah. Hope that covered it. We felt like waffled on a bit.

James de Lacey41:07

Yeah, I see that a lot. And it's not even sometimes a big number. It's where someone every fight camp is just gaining that extra half a kilo, kilo, and then every fight camp it's, you're doing 2 and a half kilo, and so then the next time it's 3 kilo. And I get it's hard for a fighter to be in a fight camp, you've got a goal, you've got an aim, you've got a date, you got an opponent, you've got something to focus on.

When you're out of fight camp, you haven't got that structure. I can understand from like a habit point of view, it's very hard to be on it all year round. But I've noticed a trend with the top people I work with, they never really struggle to make the weight. There's just some kind of discipline outside the fight camp. There's just something about them where they don't just finish the fight and then completely go off the rails or put on tons of excess weight. There's just a different mindset.

And I've definitely noticed a trend where a fighter, like a lower level, tend to have more them behaviors than someone who's at a top level, that kind of ballooning up outside of fight camp. And people can probably give examples of like, oh, what about someone like Paddy the Baddy balloons? Apparently what I've heard with Paddy the Baddy, he doesn't actually balloon up that much. He's one of them people that kind of keeps it on his face where he puts on weight, and he doesn't cut as much as people think.

So from my experience of working with the 11 world champions now, and not one of them tend to be like, we don't start fight camp thinking, "Oh my god, you've got a shitload of weight to lose." It's always just like, "Okay, how can we make this fight camp better? What can we do to make these little small tweaks?" It's not like it's a fat camp now. Let's get the weight off.

Same day weighing strategies.

Peter Miller43:23

Funny enough, I've just had someone who's just weighed in today in Thailand. So in Thailand when they have a same day weigh-in Muay Thai, it's typically like a 6:00 a.m. weigh-in and they fight around like past 6 p.m. So from an ideal point of view, a same day weighing, you don't really want to be completely removing carbohydrates just for the time period. You've got to get them carbohydrates in.

And even like jiu-jitsu tournaments and stuff like that, you may only have like an hour or less than an hour or a couple of hours to. So you're not, you haven't got enough time if you've depleted the carbs a week to get that back in. Same really with like dehydration or cutting water weight on fight week. If the same day weigh-in, you haven't really got the time to get that fluid back in.

And also if you're rushing to get that in, the carbohydrates and the fluids, that's when potential complications can happen with like you start to feel sick or you got a little bit of gut discomfort. So the best one really is is like a low fiber, low sodium diet in the days leading up to the weigh-ins where you can lose that, maybe like one, two, 3% of your body weight by doing that.

But the important thing about that is if you know you're fighting same day weighs and that's like the format that you're regularly competing at, that also means that you need to keep your weight within a good range every time. And this is quite a common thing in Thailand where fighters will come over here to get a fight. They're struggling to get a fight and then they'll get one and it's same day weighing, but they're maybe five kilos over and be like, "Oh, I need, I want a fight. What do you do?"

So what I said there, that's like the ideal scenario. But sometimes the ideal scenario doesn't happen. Like the guy today I had, he got a week's notice of the fight. He was 5 kilos off and it's like, we're going to have to try and adopt some kind of day before weighing strategies, even though I wouldn't like to do that, but we kind of had to.

But luckily in Thailand, he's got about 14 hours to refuel. So I can confidently say with 14 hours we've got a decent amount of time to rehydrate, to get the carbohydrates in where he's, it may not be an optimal, textbook scenario of being refueled, but he's going to be maybe 60, 70% there. And he knows himself that he had to do that strategy in order to make the weight. It's probably not the best way of doing it long term, but sometimes you have to just kind of roll with it.

James de Lacey46:14

Can creatine negatively affect hydration testing with the creatine levels and thoughts on creatine use generally within the weight cut? Because a lot of people tend to want to cut it out because of the potential water retention effects.

Peter Miller46:31

So the first one, creatine can definitely have an impact. They've seen studies where when they've taken large doses of creatine that can affect the levels in the urine. So I tend to say to my fighters in the One Championship weighs just remove creatine a couple days before weighs. Don't have to remove it throughout fight week, just maybe a day or two before weighins.

In terms of removing it on fight week for just a normal scenario, if you've been taking creatine for weeks and weeks on end or a couple or just regularly even out to fight camp, you're not really going to see much of a difference in weight if you just remove it on fight week. It's just, you're not going to see a difference. But there's another scenario. Would I recommend taking creatine two weeks before you fight? Probably not, because you're potentially going to get some increase in water.

So I kind of go to the fighter with the questions: have you been taking it for the last, eight plus weeks? Yeah. Have you been taking the normal dose? Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't feel there's a real need to remove it. If you've been taking it, there's a lot of fighters now getting really interested on the brain health with the creatine and showing if you're taking 20 plus grams a day that can help with cognitive function, stuff like that.

So if the fighter is going, well, I'm taking 20 grams a day, then maybe go, okay, well, maybe we just drop it down to the five grams. Just that there might be no difference at all, but let's just drop it down to the normal dose.

But yeah, I think that's one of them things you probably know yourself. It's just so passed down about the creatine. People just become obsessed with, it's the creatine, I haven't lost weight because the creatine. And it's like, it's creatine, it's not. Just you get, they get obsessed with the micro thing. Oh, you put on loads of weight in the fight camp, it's the creatine. No, it's not. But I feel it's one of them things that is never really going to go away. I feel it's just going to stay forever, the creatine.

James de Lacey48:43

It will never go. I've had so many athletes be like, I'm not taking this because it makes me cramp or I put on all this different weight or just every myth under the book gets thrown.

Peter Miller48:56

If it's the creatine, go, okay, are you accurately tracking your calories? Are you on the ball with that? How you sleeping? How much water you having? You got to ask all them questions before you start blaming the creatine. Are you truly in a calorie deficit? Are you following up with tea? What's your training schedule? What's your sleep? How much fluid you having?

If you can't give me an answer to that, then you can't say to me it's the creatine, because you can't even answer them basic questions. Until you tell me them basic answers without them questions, we're not going to have this discussion about creatine.

James de Lacey48:56

Could someone theoretically fail their hydration test because of a creatine intake that's too high because of that creatine level?

Peter Miller49:41

If you do the method that I use, there's no way because the urine's too clear.

James de Lacey49:45

If you were doing it, if you were potentially winging it and just maybe doing the method I said about just chugging a load of water for weighins and hoping for the best potentially.

Peter Miller49:45

I've seen fighters actually blame creatine and I just see what happen. Now I personally don't think it's going to be the fail.

James de Lacey50:11

I think it's mostly down to just being too dehydrated or not doing the water optimally.

Peter Miller50:19

Is there much difference between, now that we're, our connections somehow miraculously come together?

James de Lacey50:29

Is there, I mean you work with a ton of different fighters within the, is there much difference? Well, okay, there's always individual differences, but how different is, I guess the weight cut strategy or maybe even some of the dietary changes between the fighters? Or is a lot of it just pretty much similar, I want to say strategy almost, similar plan for all of them? They all follow a very similar path.

Peter Miller50:57

It is very, it's similar principles in terms of the method that I do to get my fighters passing the hydration test. What that is, that's just a tried and tested method. Could there be a way of doing it differently that potentially is? But because I know it works, I wouldn't want to deviate from it. So they kind of, in that sense, they follow the same principles.

The fight strategy is very similar just depending. I've had a fighter on One, he was fighting in August and he fights at 57 and he's walking around 62 kilos. He's actually a friend of mine too. Worked with him for maybe eight, nine camps and we know he's a really good sweater. We know he can sweat three kilos in an hour, just comfortable, just super comfortable. He'll just go on a run and no problem at all.

And he's like, I don't want to do low carb and all that while I'm fighting. I was like, okay, well, why don't we just do this then? Why don't we just drop the fiber, drop the sodium, we'll keep the carbohydrates pretty high all week and we'll just get you down to say 60 kilos and then we'll just cut the rest in water. He's like, okay, let's do that. And we did that. So it's different to every person.

And I think the benefit of what we did there is when you work with someone for multiple camps, you know what the sweat rate's like, you know how they respond to the strategies. But if you're doing someone that you've only worked maybe one or two camps, you still try and stick to the similar fight week principles. But yeah, hope that answered the question.

James de Lacey52:38

Yeah, for sure. I guess my one of my final ones on here, I don't know, it's just a random question that I was thinking before in terms of eating into competition. Obviously you have a long time after weighins to eat your way into competitions, but maybe guys who are, I don't know if you have this or this is very common at all, but maybe guys that are not well above their weight class.

Maybe they're fighting, maybe they're on weight normally out of camp or maybe they're a couple of kilos under the weight limit, maybe eating in. Is that something that you ever come across where guys maybe just sit around, they don't weight cut at all?

Peter Miller53:14

From my experience I never really have someone who fights under, probably, I don't, because they probably wouldn't employ me if they fight under. In terms of people who, I have people who are relatively close to the fight weight, but yeah, in terms of having people, there's always, I think for me, even especially given the One Championship now, there's always people that employ me because the hydration thing is such a thing shrouded in mystery. People just hire me because they just want to make sure that's okay.

Even when I've had fighters and you've only had a kilo to cut, you still want to make sure the hydration thing, because the thing with the hydration, if you fail the hydration, if you do it wrong.

And so let's say you've cut a couple of kilos and you've done it and you failed, it's very difficult to pass again. I want to mention about the analogy with the sponge, whereas you fail the, the thing is you drink water again to try and pass it, the body's just going to hold onto that water. Then they try and then they try and pass the hydration again. They fail, then they drink again. And it's just, it's, I've seen it, it's, every way and you can see it, it's just such a process.

So it's better to nail it, nail it the first time, you're cool. This is what people say, always the hydration thing. I've kind of got this two thoughts. For me, obviously from a business point of view it's helped me grow my business because people want to make sure they pass hydration. From that side, well, it's a double-edged sword. They would think it's an optimal thing to do? Probably not really a good measure of, indicator of hydration.

But when people say it's dangerous, it's not really dangerous in terms of, if you do it properly the first time, that's not, it's relatively safe to do that one. When it becomes dangerous is when you do fail and you're dehydrated and then you're chugging loads of water back and then you're cutting the weight and then you're trying to pee again. That's when it becomes a dangerous scenario. If you do it right the first time, it's not dangerous. The part when you fail is when it becomes, because you're messing with your electrolytes and water balance in your body and that's when potential complications can happen.

James de Lacey54:07

So, do you think then, without getting yourself in trouble with the One or two, do you think the hydration test is doing what it's supposed to be doing in terms of, I guess they're trying to stop fighters cutting so much weight? I guess.

Peter Miller54:07

It's amazing people fail. I suppose when people fail in a way, they're stopping people from cutting too much weight because they're failing. I suppose in a way it is preventing people because then they go, well, it's, yeah. But then obviously if people work with someone like myself or other nutritionists and there's ways around it, people are still recklessly cutting weight, but...

There's always someone who's failed. Every show I've been to, I've been to every show now for the last two years because it's 30 minutes away from me. Condo, I always have someone every week, so I always see people failing.

So in that sense, I suppose it maybe is preventing people because, you know, you haven't done it right. So I can see the reason behind they want to do it, but say that the heart's in the right place, but do we think it's an optimal thing to do? Probably not. But as I said, I can't be like, "Oh, it's really," because from a business point of view, it's helped grow my business. It's kind of a weird scenario from a practitioner side of thing business.

James de Lacey57:07

Do you think there's ever a world where weight cutting is no longer a thing, and what do you think, or maybe theorize, would be a better potential replacement than a hydration test for maybe not stopping walk anyway, but some people doing dangerous stuff?

Peter Miller57:26

I think if they did something like maybe you can't be over a certain weight the next day or something like that, and they put serious things down, and look, you can't be over. There's one time I used to do a post-weighing thing where you can't be over it.

James de Lacey57:44

Yeah, I remember that. I remember that was, I was just thinking now, I'm sure someone already did that, but did they stop that or something?

Peter Miller57:49

Yeah, they stopped that. So I think if they did that and there was a real serious implication for you being over that weight, rather than just, "Oh, you get a warning."

James de Lacey58:15

I guess the other thing as well is people will still cut weight, then they'll just fight dehydrated.

Peter Miller58:19

Yeah, that's the other side. It's kind of like there's never really an ideal. There's always going to be, the thing is with fighters, they're always going to find a way around something.

I had a fight mention anyway. He won the belt. This is when he had the strategy that they implemented the can't be over the same way. I think it's over 5%, and he was like 7%. So in order for him to get his bonus, he had to go and skip in the toilet and then come back after. He's literally just worn his belt in one and come back and then and step on the scales again, and he's under 5%.

James de Lacey58:54

Oh my gosh.

Peter Miller58:56

Yeah. It's the thing. Yeah. I mean, everything will be gamed, I guess.

James de Lacey58:59

Weight cutting is part of the sport, and it'll just be there, and it's just making sure that it's actually done safely, instead of not taking to the...I think the problem is people take it to the extreme, and their extreme things done without supervision and professional help. And the thing is, well, people go, "Oh, weight cutting should be banned," and this, and if you're in the space and you're around that, you know, that's just not going to...it's just, how can we educate the fighters? How can we make things better for them? How can there be more people like myself and other nutritionists creating a better culture?

Because to ban, it's just, there's going to be loophole, and fighters going to jump through that loophole.

Peter Miller59:41

Luckily now there's more people trying to get into the space. I've seen a big surge in, I was thinking about this the other day, like a massive surge in S&C coaches for combat sports. All I see right now is like crazy.

James de Lacey59:56

It's like, it used to be the nutritionist, but I feel like the S&C is like there's way more S&C coaches in combat sports nutritionist. I don't see that many nutritionists. Do you? There was a point where everyone was popping up, new nutritionists. It's the weight cutting was a big, almost trend for a while for nutrition. And now, now it is S&C. Oh, there's a lot.

Peter Miller1:00:20

Well, I feel like when I started out, it's been five years been doing this. I think I probably started out at the right time where it was still relatively new. I don't think people can still start and be a combat sports nutrition. I think from a growth point of view and a business point of view, I think I started at the right time because I think now it's a very saturated market where I think it'd be very hard to get your foot in the door from purely business point, from like you doing a job that you like, that's cool, but I think it'd be...

James de Lacey1:00:58

Yeah, I think there's definitely a saturated, especially in the S&C thing. I'm like, I've gen coaches every day, I know.

Peter Miller1:01:06

It is crazy. It is crazy, man.

James de Lacey1:01:09

You see it all over Instagram, just the amount of content being put out in the space. And I was like, "Holy [expletive]." I swear it's grown lately, and everyone's just kind of, I think everyone's just been told to niche down into a market, and because obviously I guess the UFC is growing and everything else. And so it's just kind of pouring in there.

And I think the thing as well, my advice for people starting off, it's not initially a very well-paid job to get into when you first...it's not...

Peter Miller1:01:38

Coaching is not usually very well...

James de Lacey1:01:42

I was doing weight cuts and sports and doing, I'm like, it's not a glamorous...people think it's a...it's not the most glamorous job in the world. People think it's, "Oh, work at all these channels." It's a lot of running up and down, just getting the food. It's like, I'm, when I have a weigh-in the next day, I'm dead. It's not the glamorous job that people think.

Peter Miller1:02:06

Exactly. I mean, for all of us who've worked in professional sport, you're filling water bottles, you're doing all the small stuff, and you're trying to make sure everything's organized. And as you mentioned, you're on all day, you're on the night before, you're on throughout the competition, you're on afterwards making sure everything's organized.

James de Lacey1:02:29

It's full-on. It's literally, people usually go 9 to 5, and then they switch off at 5, and then they go back to work at 9. In coaching stuff, there's no switch off.

Peter Miller1:02:42

And that's the thing for me with my the time difference. I'm up, I'm working. I could still be answering messages before I go to bed, just all day. And it's just, don't get me wrong, I love what I do, but it's like, if people think it's, "Oh yeah, it's a good job," but you being, you got to put the hours in.

Next week, I've got five people on, and sometimes I have, currently in the ONE stuff, I'm having maybe five, six, seven people in. It's going up the stairs, it's going down the stairs, it's going up the elevator, all on different floors, and going up the fire escape and doing this.

James de Lacey1:03:21

Yeah, it's a job. It's such a unique, crazy job, the highs and the lows and stuff. As much as sometimes you think it's, you'd always on, but it's such an enjoyable job for me. It's like you get to work elite fighters and be around that. It's pretty cool.

Peter Miller1:03:46

And then once you get the wins, the wins, just every, you forget everything else when the wins come, anything that was bad or anything before, it doesn't matter anymore. And then it just keeps you rolling forward within it.

Well, I remember with in Japan, so when Rodtang fought in Japan, I also had four other fighters, two fighting for world titles. Another girl fighting. And Rodtang won, me two guys won the world titles. And I'm walking back to the hotel. I'm literally in Japan. I've just had that. It's like, what a crazy, it's just mad to sit there thinking, just lads from Liverpool, somehow managed to be in Asia and then going in Japan and working. It's just mad.

It's such a crazy sport, and that feeling never really goes away, that winning, when they won and the adrenaline from that is, yeah, it's awesome.

James de Lacey1:04:54

It's awesome. That's awesome. Peter, where can people find or follow you? Keep up with everything you're doing?

Peter Miller1:04:59

So best place is probably Instagram. Condition.nutrition should be the first thing that pops up. Yeah, so I'm always posting on Instagram quite regularly. So, if people want to reach out, they want to drop me a DM for any information, yeah, feel free to do so.

James de Lacey1:05:16

Sweet. I'll link that up in the description as well. Hopefully this episode doesn't go all janky and stuff through the podcast. I'll try and make it flow. We'll get there. But I appreciate you coming on.

Peter Miller1:05:28

Pleasure, mate. Pleasure.