Sprint Intervals & Activation Relaxation Q&A (SSOF Ep 166)

James de Lacey0:00

So, I would highly, that's like the most updated blueprint. So, if you have the jiu-jitsu one and MMA one, I do need to update those. But the boxing one is kind of the most updated even though it's kind of geared more towards boxing, but the information is relatively similar. So, if you want to see what's going on there, check that in the description, too, because that'll be there.

And then outside of that, next week, next week's going to be an epic podcast because I have Gavin Pratt coming on. He'll actually be coming on this week live. So, he was the man behind Terence Crawford's transformation against Canelo. So, he's the one who got him to move up the weight class and still be able to perform. So, we're going to run through everything on Terence Crawford's prep for that. So, that'll be really exciting.

And then we've got a couple more coming on that I'm still scheduling throughout the weeks. And also to help the podcast, if you're not a creator or making content at all, to highlight how important it is to be able to even like the episode or leave a comment or share it, it's massive. It's pretty much the best thing you can do.

So, leave a review of the podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcast. Leave comments, like it, share it, whatever. That stuff all helps. And let's go straight into this. Okay. He's not a back to the question.

He means he's not able to have workouts planned as he does not have regular free time, but some workout that will give me something how to approach them. Zone 2 only or sprint interval even if once a week. So, if you don't have regular time, taking a Zone 2 approach probably isn't going to work because I'm assuming if you do have free time, it's going to be very, very short.

In that instance, I would go a sprint interval approach. In fact, I do have my friend and I guess we'll call him client. I don't like saying client, but whatever. Friend and athlete is one of New Zealand's top grapplers, Jared Dell. He just competed a super fight over the weekend and crushed it.

For him, we have no time. So, he was a, he was teaching full-time. He's a teacher. I think he just left that job now, but he's still doing other things. And he's doing jiu-jitsu every day of the week, sometimes twice a day.

There is zero chance I'm getting him to go do three times a week 45 to 60 minute long bike rides or runs or whatever it is to do low intensity cardio. There's just no, there's just no way it is even possible because, so he still fits some of his strength work in. He might strength train once or twice a week and we're talking minimal two lifts like squat and press working up to a heavy set of five, three, two or one and then two sets of back-offs. That's it.

And then for the actual cardio stuff, we're doing sprint intervals because it takes him three minutes to do a sprint interval. And we do those two to three times a week depending. And that way we can actually start to push the adaptations and we can start to get into intensities that he's not going to get into on the mats.

And once you start doing the sprint intervals, you kind of start to feel how much different it is doing those compared to hard rolling, which yes, you can gas yourself pretty hard doing hard rolling, but you're not going to repeatedly be doing that. It's much more difficult to get there as well.

So in that instance, if you don't have much time, you should be taking a sprint interval approach because of how time efficient it is. But then on top of that, obviously, you have all the other benefits to that, which is targeting the muscular adaptations for endurance. You're still going to get some adaptations at the central level at the heart, just not to the same extent as if you're doing maximal stretching of the heart through lower intensity means.

So, but again, it all comes down to does it even matter? Is oxygen delivery really that limiting factor within combat sports, which it doesn't seem to be. So, but I will, yeah, I will be taking a sprint interval approach if you don't have much time.

Now to answer your question first. No, sorry it wasn't your question on the video. Koko loco, you actually, I will answer your question first you have one. So he's talking about the hill runs. So I gave an option about hill running just to give some more options outside of just intervals and I think beneficial training modalities that should be done just for overall performance.

And he was asking heart rate guidelines for hill runs. He doesn't have a hill but would love to try it. How do I know his name is Polish? I've traveled a fair whack. I can, I don't know. I just look at names and I can almost guess where they're from.

So, he's asking about heart rates for hills. So, I wouldn't really worry too much about heart rate if you're doing say long intervals for hills or even long intervals say you're doing on a rower based on maximum aerobic speed or on a bike. I would worry more about just the performance. It's just easier that way.

So, performance would be like on a hill like just go as far as you can. Can you maintain a really strong pace throughout the whole thing? Row a bike if you're in maximum aerobic speed. It's just making sure you hit the distances that are prescribed. But if you were going to go by heart rate, typically the heart rate guidelines for long or for high intestinal training is like above 85% of max heart rate. So you're typically talking like normally 90% plus.

So relatively hard work that you're just trying to sustain for relatively shortish blocks of work. So like 2 minutes to 5 minutes as an example. Now a question from Steph4731. He's saying that he recently started using the sprint mechanisms from the boxing blueprint.

Again, make sure you guys get that boxing blueprint, man. I had like 150 people get that on when I first posted on my story and people have been really liking it. So, check it out. It's honestly, it's probably one of my more comprehensive combat sports books and it's completely free. So, maybe I should have sold it.

His chosen modality is the stationary bike. He's been consistently doing technical training before this. So, he's doing his sprint intervals after a technical training, which in my opinion is a good idea. On the bike, he can't seem to hit heart rate above 90%. So, I think this is a relatively common thing too.

My legs give out long before that. Is that just me being peripherally limited or is there something I can change? Bike resistance I set somewhere in the middle to achieve higher end bike. So, there's a few things to think about with this. First one is how accurate is your max heart rate that maybe is in your app. If you're just doing an estimate of like 220 minus your age, it is obviously not accurate. So that's the first thing to check, is your max heart rate in there accurate?

And then the other thing is to be able to look at that is do you get higher heart rates doing other activities? So if you're doing sparring or technical drills, does your heart rate go higher than what you get on these bike sprints? That'll be another indicator with what's going on.

Now, say you're only hitting, I don't know, 170, 165, 170 beats on this sprint, but your heart rate gets like 180, 185, 190 when you're sparring things. Okay, that might be a little bit of an issue in these instances typically.

So, he says he's using a stationary bike. I asked him what kind of stuff. I think it might be a spin bike based on his examples, and he doesn't have a, he doesn't pay attention to display. So spin bikes are quite hard to dial in with sprints, but basically often the resistance isn't high enough to reach those high heart rates just from my experience if you're going on a spin bike.

So you really got to get to, if you've ever used an air bike, soul bike, Rogue Echo Bike, any of those, you want to dial in the resistance so it's a similar cadence or similar RPM to when you go max on that.

So, I think I haven't looked at the screen when I do them on nearby, but you're probably looking around like 120ish, maybe 130 RPMs, probably on the lower end, 110 to 120. So, it means you kind of got to dial in the resistance to be able to get you that, that resistance is probably going to be a bit higher than maybe what you think.

So, it's something you're going to have to play around with on the bike to be able to get yourself to work hard enough because if it spins too fast, it's just not enough effort to be able to get to those higher heart rates, at least not quickly.

And the other thing to cover, so I asked him what work rest and sets he's doing. So he said he's recently doing 15 seconds on, 30 seconds off for eight and then 20 seconds on, 2 minutes rest for six. Increase the work time to try and up the heart rate but couldn't reach heart rate before his legs just gave out.

It could potentially be just the legs not being used to it. It's hard to say. Your legs will always give out through the further sets. But the idea is that you're able to maintain not exactly but somewhat maintain the performance across all the sets.

In this instance, I would look to play around with the resistance on the bike first. I would go straight to two sets of 30 seconds on, 60 seconds off. That's kind of what we use for baseline and then work our way down recovery from there.

Especially if you're not analyzing the heart rate stuff and trying analyzing the data. Two sets of 30 on, 60 off. Come down, go down to three sets of 20 on, 40 off for a couple for a few sessions.

Kind of see how that looks and feel. See if the graph, see if the trend of the heart rate looks similar to the 30, 60 in terms of how it's coming down. And then you can even milk it a little further and you can go say four sets of 15 on, 30 off.

And then you can look to go at 10 ons and maybe 30 off or 10 on, 20 off. And I would just stick to one minute of total work time initially. And that way you can kind of build your way into it because just from my experience, going straight to say eight sets or past that minute is really hard.

You got to be in relatively good sprint shape to be able to go past kind of that minute mark of total work and maintain that quality really well. So that's just something to bear in mind. If your legs are giving out, potentially it could be a problem that you're just not recovering between the efforts enough.

So potentially if you're not recovering to the efforts enough, which is kind of what I mentioned, you kind of gradually bring the rest down as you're bringing the work times down, but you're going to have to eventually look at one to two, one to one and a half potentially to try and force that recovery between efforts.

So hopefully that answers that one. It's so individual on a lot of these sprints that it's hard to nail down you should just do this, this, this, but just as a general guideline that is one you can use. And I also had a question on the video from Mal Rose 68, what's the total work time for the bag work? So I also mentioned about specific bag intervals, heavy bag intervals you can do just like you do with bike sprints, but the total work time that is exactly the same, 1 to 2 minutes for your heavy bags.

You're doing 10 seconds on, 10 seconds off, you do six rounds, six to 12 rounds as an example, which will give you that 1 to 2 minutes.

So, you can also do the heavy bags with the bike sprints as well in the same session if you are conditioned enough. And then I had another one question in the chat. Are cardio intervals on the bag as effective as those on the airbike?

So, the easiest way to answer this is whenever you're doing something with specificity or as a specific modality, you're trading intensity for the specificity, which in the overall arching zoomed out view of a program, perfectly fine. But it just means that you're not going to throw all your eggs into that basket.

So, if you're doing heavy bag intervals, you're probably going to want to be doing bike sprint intervals, too, because the bike sprint interval is going to be the highest of the highest intensities you'll ever reach in your training. And that's what you want to absolutely nail the physiology, but also take you to really dark places.

Then the heavy bag interval is kind of that step below. You're going to do more, quote unquote, specific work. It's potentially going to transfer better to your training. You can work on the technical elements of your training at the same time, and you're still going to get some of the physiology out the back end.

So, it's a good idea to do both. If you're a striker, it's a good idea to do both. For grapplers, you don't really have an option to do hard sprint interval specific work. The only thing you could potentially do is a really fast shadow wrestling, which might not be intense enough.

Just taking, you know, a lot of air shots and sprawls and stuff like that. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it. It's probably something you can do. It's something you could even do before your main bike sprint intervals, but you're going to get more out of your bike sprints and then you can kind of just use the sport to be able to, like, positional sparring and things to get more of the high intensity work in potentially.

Grappling is a bit of a funny one with that. And I got a question about some long duration ISO stuff too before that so I don't have to put a bloody ad in here. Make sure you guys check the link in the description too.

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But Adah 777. So ECC incorporated this movement in his daily routine which was the push-up isometric at long muscle lens. Also if you have more questions throw them in the chat. They can be on anything. It can still be on the sprint stuff or any cardio training stuff.

He says there's, oh there's a question. I'll come to your question Koko in a sec. But there's no leverage in doing push-ups like this. It's more like stretching exercise. Pushing against horizontal bar while standing on the ground is game changer for him. How long we roll them?

So I think with the push-up one, so the idea is that you elevate the hands to get into a really deep stretch. So you can use parallettes or you can just elevate your hands on plates and you're holding that bottom position.

I think the biggest difference which people don't see when they see the exercise is the intent of what you're trying to get out of that bottom position. If you're just in that position and holding, that's not the long duration isometric to make it an actual exercise to stimulate those adaptations, those speed adaptations that we want, those structure adaptations that we want such as increased muscle fascicle length. You need to push yourself back up and almost bring your elbows and hands together, like you're doing a fly.

So, you're getting that push and push in and you're holding that position in that stretch with that tension for the entire time. That is what you're trying to do with the exercise. If you're just holding it, you're not going to get the same stimulus.

So, if those push-ups, even if the tension stuff, say you do 45, 60 seconds, whatever, is too easy, you can go longer. Or you can look to say elevate your feet, have more weight over your arms and hands, or get someone to put a plate on your back. Any of these things to load it and you can do the same thing. So that's just something to bear in mind as well with specifically with the isometrics.

Another question in the chat, you have some experience with rugby maybe with soccer too.

Do you think sprint interval would go good there or something with longer duration and length to play as much longer? Yes, sprint intervals and team sport, any sport that requires aerobic energy. This push is pretty much all of them. How would I phrase this?

Any sport that requires some form of endurance benefits from sprint interval training. And I mean sprint interval training has been done in rugby and soccer for a long time. They do a lot of research on repeated sprint ability. I would argue that a lot of the repeated sprint ability and the way repeated sprints are typically done are not done to the same intensity as what we're seeing now within combat sports.

So it's a little different. But yes, you would do that because you're targeting the physiology that you want to be able to recover between efforts in a game. So you'd be looking at the same sprint intervals and you're looking to improve mitochondrial function, improve or improve mitochondrial content so you have more of them and then you're able to use oxygen and resaturate oxygen in much greater rates and much more efficiently than potentially other people.

Help when you have more endurance than the sport. And within especially within rugby, you don't have much time. It's like combat sports, you have very little time to prepare for seasons, for games during the training week. Because think about all the things you need to cover within a training week.

You've got units, backs, forwards, scrummaging, lineouts, plays, counterattacks, formations of kickoffs, and then you got playing structures, defensive structures, skills, and then you got to fit in speed work, gym work, conditioning work. You got everything. And you got a week, you're doing that within a week.

And then depending on the comp, depending on the competition, you got anywhere from three to four weeks to three to four months to prepare. So there's a huge range of time you have available to do things and then time you have within a training week to be able to get things done.

So sprint intervals make a very time efficient way to be able to essentially create those adaptations, especially in a way as well, you can do them running but on a bike you're not going to beat yourself up. That's one of the main benefits of doing these things on a bike.

You don't have to run. You don't have that risk of injury. You don't have the soreness and the fatigue that you might carry over from something like a running protocol. So it makes it usable for almost anyone and you can do it and still train the next day and not be completely wiped.

So that's yeah, works really well in all sports like that. So it's just when you're looking to physiology then that physiology underpins your technical tactical work. So as long as you're doing your technical tactical stuff, you're studying your sport, the movement, what being, the biggest thing is you have to be put in as many scenarios as possible for yourself to problem solve.

And it doesn't always happen within certain sports and with certain coaches, but you need to be in positions where you're fighting or sparring or live training with different people, different styles in different situations because you need to be presented with as much information as possible so you can figure out the way to solve that problem.

And I don't know if any of you have competed in say jiu-jitsu or boxing or whatever, but if you just train at your club and you're rolling with the same people every time and you go to competition, it's so much different because yes, you have competition intensity, but even if you do competition intensity in class with the same people you are familiar with, you kind of understand their game, you understand their rhythm, you understand what they're trying to do.

So invariably it's going to be a slower roll or slower live training because you kind of understand each other's game whereas you have the uncertainty of an opponent in a competition plus the competition intensity on top. So it makes it really hard to kind of translate what's happening in say your local gym to a competition set unless you are doing say open mat or sparring other random people that you don't know because then you get presented with information that you may not have seen that you have to problem solve.

And this is true for all sports. What we try and do a lot in rugby as well is this idea of problem solving where you're maybe doing 3v2 or 2v1s or setting up different counterattack scenarios where players coming in from different angles and you're having to find the space or do something with the ball and it's about preparing the players to be able to see what's in front of them.

Same thing in combat sports. You're trying to prepare yourself to see what's in front of you and then you're having to problem solve from that and which means you're going to fail which should be allowed within your club, team, whatever. If failure is seen as a bad thing you're going to stunt your development, growth.

I mean, you see it all the time in sport around the world where failure is seen as, and practice is seen as like this horrible thing where everything should be perfect. If everything's perfect in training, it means that nothing will be perfect in competition.

I'm telling you that now. You have to fail in training because that is what is challenging you to be able to figure out what to do. And players that are fearful of failure because they're having to do push-ups and burpees because they didn't, they dropped the ball or whatever else, that's a huge problem in my opinion. Just from the chat, agree even when you go to different places to train, I was doing it a little bit when I was training for work and it skyrockets.

I went now, yeah, when you go different places to train it's completely different because you just don't know what the other person's going to do similar to a competition.

And if you are doing competition rounds, even bigger, you're not familiar with what's going on. You got more problems to solve. This person has longer legs. This person likes to play off his back. He has certain position he's trying to get to and guard or this guy is just like a wrestler. This guy likes to play top position.

This guy, I don't know, signature submission is Kimura, whatever. So, he's always going there. These are the things that you have to deal with that when you're going to have to deal with in competition. Same thing in striking arts, setting up exercise.

And this is more of the technical coaching side, but setting up drills or live, we'll call them live sparring situations. Maybe it's smaller spaces, maybe it's larger spaces, maybe it's only against defense, maybe certain people can only use certain attacks, things like that.

There's a lot of different ways you can do it. Appreciate you, Coco Locker. Have a good week. You have a good week, too. If you have any more questions, just throw them through. And then if you guys have any more questions, throw them in the chat, too.

And I'll just continue to ramble. And then also on the podcast, the Just Fly podcast, if you haven't listened to it, we covered a few different things. One of them was Olympic weightlifting, which is actually pretty cool discussion. I think Olympic weightlifting is sometimes, not potentially, is sometimes overdosed.

Funny enough, I'll be getting garage strength on the podcast soon, which would be cool. We'll probably cover some of that, too. Usually the debate goes Olympic weightlifting or no Olympic lifting, blah blah blah blah. And it's kind of just, it's kind of stuff everyone knows, you can do Olympic weightlifting or you don't have to.

You can still elicit similar outcomes. Yep. Cool. We're all cool with that. But it's quite cool to go into more detail within weightlifting, how you can modify weightlifting itself to have better transfer or at least match some of the adaptations and movements from the actual sport.

So instead of just always having to do power cleans or power snatches on the floor, going from really high blocks, so we're talking top of the thigh area, the time you have to produce the impulse is so short that you're going to get closer to potentially what you're going to need to do within combat sports.

So you can do things there if you have higher blocks. If not, you can kind of just go from the hip for power snatches and power cleans if you're doing them. Or you can use pull variations. It was all good. So that's kind of a cool one to play with.

You can do split snatch variations. You can use dumbbells for a lot of this. So, if you can't, the bar just doesn't agree with you or whatever or it's just too hard to land. You can do one arm dumbbell snatches from the hang.

You can do dumbbell cleans. You can do dumbbell jerks. A lot of stuff there. All really good options that you can use and they're often fun. Even we had a guy in the Sweet Science of Fighting training app community, which is down in the description, the training app, the programs, saying how much he's been enjoying just learning the Olympic lifts.

And it's just something that if you have the time and maybe you're not in a rush or you're not just trying to go pro, you got pro fights coming up and things like that, then you it's pretty good investment in your time I think because it's not taking too much.

You can kind of learn from the higher positions and you can get a lot out of them and you're just learning to really transfer from the feet to the hands within these kind of more complex movements. So they can be good fun. So weightlifting and then we touch on a lot of activation relaxation kinetics especially on oscillatory isometrics.

I should find a video. I should post it. I'll post it on my Instagram, actually. So what I'll do, when you guys listen to this on Monday or Tuesday, I will have this up on Instagram on Monday or Tuesday, probably on Monday, of the pulse exercise.

I hope I have it. I don't know if I actually have a video of it. I have to look. If not, I have to film one in a week and put it up. So it's not there because I can't find it. I have to film one. But it's essentially a single leg glute ham raise and you're just essentially pulsing.

So you're kind of trying to move the body up and down as quickly as possible and it just makes, like, feels really good on the hamstring because it just absolutely, like, munches it on the way down. Munches it. I mean, like, it pulls it tight.

So it ends up being like an oscilly isometric where you have to kind of switch on and off. It also ends up being like a fast eccentric. So it's a nice one for the hamstrings, probably not as, what would you call it, applicable in combat sports, but still useful.

But we went down the rabbit hole of kind of oscillatory isometric and activation relaxation, and there's definitely a place for some of these oscillatory, having to kind of pulse. The activation relaxation side is kind of like been my jam recently, really gone down the rabbit hole of a lot of that stuff because I think it's almost neglected in terms of a thought process of what's going into a training program and what someone's maybe trying to achieve out of it. Because there's one particular exercise that I look at and I'm like, I don't know if that is doing the right thing.

And that would be, for example, you see a lot of like banded dumbbell benches. So the band around the back or around the bench and the hands and the dumbbells, they're doing dumbbell bench with the accommodating resistance from the bands. And there's two reasons why I just really don't like that exercise.

The first one is if you're using accommodating resistance with the bands, you're using it to basically reduce the deceleration of the implement through the later half of that concentric phase. So typically, say if you're doing a bench press with the bar, around 50% of that concentric phase, or the 50% at the end, is just spent decelerating the bar to the end.

Because if you didn't decelerate it, you're just going to pop your limbs out. So it doesn't matter how much weight's on the bar, you're just going to decelerate at the end. Well, it's going to get worse as you push it faster, lighter weights.

When you add the bands to the dumbbells, you're not getting that effect because the dumbbells are unstable. So even if you're pushing it, you've got like this unstable implement with the bands and you're not getting that acceleration anyway to the same extent you are with a bar.

So that's the first thing. And the second thing is with the bands—now, I'm not saying you can't use them and it's not like you can't do band, like you can do banded bench for sure, but specifically if you're going, like, these aren't fast dumbbell benches.

These are kind of like a normal dumbbell bench with a band. It takes away, not takes away, it makes it even more, quote unquote, pushy or active throughout the entire range. So if I was doing, say, a throw or a speed bench, I'm going to have some of that relaxation as I try and push.

But with the band, you're just getting more and more tension as you push through. Is having more and more tension as you push through, is that what you want out of your striking action? Now, again, just because you do something doesn't mean it's suddenly going to transfer over and you're going to be pushing all your punches and everything's going to be slow.

I'm just thinking, like, macro adaptation. Why use, what are the added benefits of adding that band to that exercise is kind of what I'm trying to get at.

So anyways, back to activation relaxation. Like, this idea that speed, especially cyclical speed—so that's going to be throwing a punch, bringing it back, throwing a punch, bringing it back to throw the next punch, to be able to rotate the shoulders and the trunk as you go from strike to strike to strike.

Same thing with kicking. It's limited by the relaxation time or your ability to relax in the cycle, because you have the activation, which is, say, throwing, and the relaxation is coming back and turning into the next punch but to activate again. And if you can't relax fast enough, you can't throw them fast enough.

So training ideally should be looking to facilitate some of this. Now, that doesn't mean everything you do is going to be kind of like this twitchy thing or funky stuff, but it means that you may, for more velocity-based or striking-based athletes, you may spend more time doing more explosive-style work than you will, say, under a barbell doing traditional lifting.

In fact, in these instances, you can still do a lot of high force work without even a barbell. And that's actually covered some of the Marinovich system in that podcast, too. Like, it's probably a pretty decent method for a lot of strikers because it is so high intent, high speed-based. But I still think there is place just for general traditional lifting, too.

I just think it sometimes gets overblown with, hey, you just need to squat more. If you squat more, you're going to punch harder. It's like, if you've never squatted and you squat 60 kilos, yeah, it's probably going to help. You squat 1.5 to two times body weight.

Now, now we're looking at, is it even worth, like, does it even matter at that point? If I go to 2.2 from a two times body weight squat, is that going to matter in the sport of any striking art when the force, when the maximum force requirements are so low?

And there's a really cool graph by, I think it's Lachlan James. She posted it on LinkedIn a little while ago, and they showed the shared variance, basically the shared qualities between a peak force of an isometric mid-thigh pull, which is like, it's basically your highest force capacity you can do maximum strength-wise, with greater force development at certain time points. And as force becomes, as the time to produce force becomes lower, the shared variance or the shared quality between these two qualities becomes less and less and less.

Which means at 50 to 150 milliseconds, which is where you're going to be within striking, that shared variance is so low that improving maximum strength is likely not going to improve your ability to produce force in those shorter time frames by that much.

So then you're looking at kind of more of that fast eccentric work, explosive-style ballistic training, even some of the oscillatory isometrics, and being able to switch on and off. These things all play a role in this kind of early rate of force development that we're kind of looking for and the kind of rate of force and rate of power development that we want as strikers.

Within grappling, again, I've told, I've mentioned this a lot on the podcast, it's a sport that benefits so much just from being big and strong, and you don't have these periods where you have to generate force and impulse in 130 milliseconds.

You've got a lot of time once you've got a hold of someone. You can kind of grind it out. It also depends on the style of your game. You can have a really grindy style of wrestling or jiu-jitsu, or you could even have more like a Greco-Roman style wrestling within jiu-jitsu as well.

So there's, you got different, you got different styles and different game plans of things that are going to benefit more from certain things. But in general, just like strength and size is just going to work so well in those sports.

So yeah, it was a really cool chat there and hopefully you guys got something out of it. With the activation relaxation stuff, I've covered, if you're not familiar with it, I've actually covered, if you go back a few videos on the Sweet Science of Fighting channel, done quite a few videos on this activation relaxation.

Even on like the How to Punch Harder video and a bunch of other stuff. So I highly recommend you check those out and look out for the Gavin Pratt one, the Gareth Strength one coming. Got a couple more coming on, another UFC one.

So yeah, there should be some good stuff coming out soon. So make sure you keep up with the podcast, like it, leave a review, all that good stuff. It all helps this podcast grow. And if you have any questions, shoot them through to me.

Check the links in the description. I'll catch you guys in the next podcast.