Special Strength, Roadwork, Conditioning, & Osc Iso's For Muay Thai & Boxing w/ Graeme Morris

Graeme Morris1:22

Also, Rib is current Lumpinee Muay Thai champ, well champ. So I work with him as well. And then my actual coach, based back in Sydney when I was in Sydney, I was training him one-on-one, but now just consult online—Louis Lerou Reges. He's four and one, one no contest. I think he's still Australian champ, but he hasn't fought for a few years.

But then other than that, I train a few just a few pro fighters in that as well. I consult for a lot of fighters online now, because I think it's very—their schedule's so big that you can fill this gap. And with the training software we have these days with all these different platforms, you can actually—a lot of these guys have an understanding of what they're doing, so you can fill that gap from afar quite often.

James de Lacey2:52

Nice. Yeah, you've got quite a big list of fighters under you. And actually, you mentioned about fighters transitioning from Muay Thai to boxing or the differences between Muay Thai, kickboxing, and boxing. How does your approach change then from, say, strength training? We can even cover some of the conditioning side too. How does that change, say, a boxer versus a kickboxer or kickboxer versus Muay Thai? Because obviously people see, oh, they're all striking. Striking bouts, they're all two to three minute rounds, so we just do the same thing. But how do you see those differences? You mentioned some of the small differences there.

Graeme Morris3:51

Yeah, well, first of all, boxing, quite often you're going to have a lot more rounds. So Muay Thai, traditionally three to five rounds, right? It's same as Glory, unless it's championship fights. But with Muay Thai, you're going to have a lot more clinching, a lot more grinding. There's more of a mix between that ballistic and that grinding strength.

As you go to kickboxing, it's getting more ballistic, and then boxing is just completely more ballistic. I'd say that you have to have a lot more reactive strength there. You're popping in and out a lot more, moving your head more.

In terms of the conditioning, I still think it's just slightly different. I still think you've got to have that huge aerobic base for all of them. Just because, even though if you look at the energy system stuff in Muay Thai, even they probably say it's very glycolytic, but you've got to have that aerobic, that base.

Plus, you don't want those guys going glycolytic unless they have to. So if you can push the edge of that aerobic base, means they're less likely to get fatigued. But I think just in terms of these athletes' training loads, the aerobic energy system is so important, because just the recovery between training sessions allow them to get more training in, more quality training in, just for general wellbeing.

Obviously, you need to have that alactic component for all of them, because you want to have that knockout ability. You want to be able to—skills equal—you want to have harder strikes. And then obviously when we have these flurries and we're grinding, you still need to have that glycolytic stuff, because that's what's going to keep you going in those flurries. So you need to balance all three of them.

Probably it's just difference in terms of the boxing—you're not kicking or you're not kneeing. And then I think those guys that transition across, they find that quite difficult to start with, because before you're mixing up all your strikes, and now you're just solely boxing. So guys can get fatigued.

What I found was with them as well, that they got fatigued legs actually. Because you have that wider base stance, all of a sudden your center of mass comes down, because no one's chopping your front leg. And obviously you can throw a lot more powerful strikes from that wider stance. So I found that they fatigue their legs a little bit. So yeah, that's probably it, really.

James de Lacey6:12

Yeah, I've got multiple questions from that. I'm going to try to remember them all, but I'm going to start—I'm going to start with kind of where you left off on the conditioning side. So you mentioned that obviously you need that strong aerobic base. Do you have a go-to methodology or philosophy around how you're developing that low-end, essentially that low-end energy system for their combat sport?

Graeme Morris6:39

Yeah, well, you're going to find that a lot of these guys do a lot of running anyway. Now, the funny thing is, when I first got into combats, when I was really getting into it, I was like, "Guys, you don't need to do all this running. It's not needed." You can do Joel Jamieson—what's it called?—the Roadwork 2.0. You can mix up all his methodology. You can mix it with shadow boxing, working at 130 to 150, that cardiac output, low intensity stuff.

Rather than being so general, you can mix it up with some more specificity—a bit more shadow boxing, skipping, a little bit of bag work. And you can circuit it like that. But what I've worked out over the years is that for a lot of these guys, that basic road running is kind of—I think it de-stresses them.

Because in the fight game you're always inside, roof over your head, and the ability to go outside and have fresh air, run through the bush or do anything like this—for a lot of these guys, it's like it lets them clear their mind. So I've gone a little bit full circle in that. Because it's like, yeah, that's when they switch off, and maybe they're not completely thinking about fighting in that aspect.

But I think that lower intensity stuff, even if it's outside, a little bit of road running—you can do it, as I said before, mixing it up with shadow boxing, off-feet stuff. Probably the off-feet stuff's going to be further away from the fight. After guys have finished fight and building that general stuff, but as we're getting more specific to fight time, we'll probably start cutting away some of that low intensity stuff. It's going to be a lot more specific.

So if you're going to have that general to specific, higher volume, probably stuff, to a bit more lower volume but more intensity. And then probably looking at aerobic power and all that's a little bit further away. But as you're getting closer, you're starting to probably work a little bit more lactic capacity, power, that stuff. Because I probably think those adaptations are—a lot of those adaptations are...

Probably the enzymes and stuff like that, which probably is not so structural. So you probably want that closer to the fight, but not for a long amount. I don't think you need it for a long amount of period, because if you're getting a lot of that stuff in your training anyway, you probably don't need a huge amount of it. So that's probably the icing on the cake, I feel.

James de Lacey9:27

So are you, say during that aerobic-style phase, are you then still adding in some of that glycolytic or lactic Energy System training, or you keeping that purely, "Hey, this is we're targeting that aerobic Energy System and maybe the high output end," or is it just more you're going to get it through the fight, maybe you're going to get it through some live sparring or something anyway? Touch the other stuff.

Graeme Morris9:54

Further away, this is the reality, right? Further away you say, "Okay, we're going to try and focus on this aerobic stuff," and it's going to become more lactic. But let's face it, if I give guys the option further away from a fight—I look at that Joel Jamieson stuff, the power, the capacity—and I might say, "Hey, okay, you might want to hit, do bag work this day, but have the choice to do off-feet if you're sick of hitting the bag and you're further away from the fight." But as you're getting closer, you might want to make that more specific, or you will want to make that more specific.

But I don't know if you—everyone out there, when you hit the bag and you're told to work on these low-intensity parameters, you're not doing that. You want to smash it. So you're going to get that stuff in there anyway. And you're always going to get that whenever you're hitting pads—"Oh yeah, I'm just going to go hit it soft"—not really. You're always going to get that mix of that glycolytic stuff in there because you just want to hit the pads hard or you want to hit the bag hard. So you're getting that anyway, I think.

So kind of what he said, I'd further away be working more power, more aerobic, and then bleeding that lactic stuff in and probably reducing some of the aerobic stuff out there. And going from general to specific, but you're always going to have all three energy systems going.

James de Lacey11:01

I actually wanted to circle back a little bit to that road work stuff, because obviously you're working with a lot of, I guess say, high-level professional guys, right? So they're doing their, essentially their combat sports training, maybe every day of the week, almost sometimes multiple times a day. For say a hobbyist, maybe a hobbyist Muay Thai or boxer that's maybe training three, four times a week, would you still recommend, "Hey, go do your road work," or would you recommend then coming back and be like, "Maybe you should start looking at more specific stuff year round," because that gives you a little more technical time?

Graeme Morris11:27

Yeah, it depends. Do these guys want to become fighters or—

James de Lacey11:27

Yeah. Yeah, let's say they compete maybe a couple times a year.

Graeme Morris11:54

Well, I'd definitely say I'd be trying to make all as much energy system developed specific as possible. Because that's what's going to make you a better fighter, I think, I feel. And then obviously if you want to run because you enjoy running, go for a run if you enjoy. But if I'm an amateur fighter or I'm trying to do my first fight and I'm a lower level than a lot of his professionals are, I'm going to spend as much time trying to do specific skills training. But then obviously I'll manipulate the intensities in that to try and target some of those energy systems that we're after.

At the end of the day, if you're a lower level, doing road running is not going to help you if the other guy's way more skillful.

James de Lacey12:20

Yeah. I think a lot of people forget that. Like, "Oh yeah, I got to get my conditioning up, so I'm going to go do circuits of whatever it is—CrossFit, road run at 5 a.m., three, four times a week." But if you're only doing your combat sport three, four times a week, how are you going to get better? Just get better at fighting, bro.

For sure. No, that's awesome. And then I want to touch on a little bit of that strength side as well. I might come back to the conditioning side a bit, but the strength side. So you mentioned boxers tend to need more reactive strength. So what is reactive strength, essentially, and what is reactive strength of a boxer, and why is a boxer needing more reactive strength than say a kickboxer or Muay Thai?

Graeme Morris12:58

Well, I'd say reactive strength means you're probably using your tendons and your fascia a lot more than probably your muscles, I guess. That's how you'd probably—

James de Lacey13:23

Yeah, that's perfect. I mean, for someone who doesn't have a background in say strength science, that's perfect.

Graeme Morris13:23

Yeah. So, and the reason that's more important is because you're obviously bouncing around a lot more. Your footwork's a lot more bouncy compared to a Muay Thai guy who's probably more plodding on the spot. And kickboxing is probably that blend in between. Because it depends where you come from. Some Muay Thai fighters transition to kickboxing, but then you have a lot of European guys or Dutch guys will just be pure kickboxing where they'll have that—they'll probably have better hands and they'll probably throw more combos.

Whereas you get the Muay Thai guys where they don't throw as many combos, but when they're throwing, they're throwing full power, just trying to kill.

James de Lacey14:22

But what was the question again, about elasticity and—and yeah, about reactive strength of boxers? How are you essentially developing reactive strength?

Graeme Morris14:22

Well, the other thing is, I think you don't want to go crazy either, because they're getting so much of that specificity in their specific training. They're probably going to skip more, they're probably going to do a lot more being a lot more bouncy in their training. So I think with all these guys anyway, you want to have a lot of—I think it's a lot more similar than people think, because you just need that general work in there.

Because your sport does take care of a lot of that stuff already. If you're skipping a lot as a boxer and you're bouncing in and out your footwork, you're getting a lot of that already.

Whereas sometimes you probably want some of that general stuff. And then in the opposite of that, Muay Thai, you might want to have some more plyometric stuff in there to make you more reactive. It's kind of the opposite, doesn't it? Fill in the gap.

James de Lacey15:11

Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. You're filling in the gap that Muay Thai guy might not have, and you might want them a little bit lighter on their feet. So you might actually sometimes give them a little bit more plyometric stuff than a boxer. It just depends.

Graeme Morris15:11

Because if you give the boxer too much plyometric stuff, maybe it's going to cook them because they're already getting that within their training anyway.

James de Lacey15:35

Do you ever provide say higher-intensity plyometrics then for the boxers, considering they're only really getting low-level, essentially extensive plyometrics?

Graeme Morris15:35

Yes, I will, I will, for sure. I'll progress that through, but it'll be lower volume. I'm not going crazy on that. And then that will depend. People always say, "Oh, these are the phases you go through, whatever." That's good in theory. I'll just do it to the capability of the athlete.

Because a lot of fighters, in that they don't do plyometrics, and you do these exercises and they've had such a big low training age in terms of the strength side of things—but they got so much specificity. Sometimes you just got to keep it really basic. So what I prescribe will be solely based on where the training history of the athlete is.

James de Lacey16:02

Do you have some examples of maybe some high-level plyometric exercises that you would use?

Graeme Morris16:27

Yeah, well, I'll start the extensive stuff further away, obviously, as we're progressing through. But I'll do anywhere from line hops in the warm-ups. And then I'll do the same things—I'll just maybe do hurdle hop and stick to start, repeat hurdle hop, high-low hurdle hops. I still do single-leg hops repeated with River when he's doing boxing. Then for jumps, we're doing a lot of scissor jumps and things like that.

It just depends. But just that general theme. It's probably like I'm not doing bounds or anything like track and field guys, but I'll have the hurdle hops in there, the single-leg hops in there. We might do some height and stuff like that. And we're just layering on the intensity, but then keeping that the line jumps in to potentiate the nervous system at the start of the session or something like that. So we're getting that lower limb robustness from the knee to the ankle.

I even still use that rudimentary Altis stuff in there sometimes in warm-ups, just single-leg jump and stick, double stick, triple stick, medial, lateral, backwards, different planes, rotational hops. They serve my warm-up, and then I might do some more intensive plyometric depending where they're at in the session.

And you're probably just combining it as contrast, and whether or not you're getting that potentiation, I'm not sure. But it just fits into the session, allows you to get more density of that training. People can argue about that. I think sometimes it's just about getting the work in.

James de Lacey17:51

For sure. I want to dive a little deeper into—

I want to dive a little deeper into that into the actual session itself. So how is your strength training session structured then? You mentioned you have a warm-up and you do some of these, say, line jump things almost as a power potentiation, almost. So from there, how does that progress through to the rest of the session and tail, essentially?

Graeme Morris18:21

My warm-up stuff is like, I don't know if you know David Gray, I do a lot of his type work. So I'm looking a lot of hip stuff because I want my athletes to have good range of motion for the hips, to have good internal rotation, external rotation, especially with kickboxers as well, but even with boxers, because that's where your power's coming from, is your hips.

So we'll do that. We'll also do some scap shoulder prep in the warm-up. There might be crawls, it might be static holds, scap work, just to build some robustness through there. Then from there we might go into some type of hop scenario just to potentiate everything.

Then we're looking at, if it's further away from a fight, we might have more strength-orientated, more tissue quality stuff. As we're getting closer it's going to be more power-related stuff. But let's say we're getting more spot, say, let's say at the start, we probably do a power type circuit. There might be a med ball rotation type thing, it might be a power jump of some sort. Then there might be an upper body ballistic exercise. We might do that in circuit fashion.

We'll probably do a lower body strength movement, an upper body push-pull strength movement. And that movement will depend where at camp. If it's fight camp, they're probably going to be explosive variations. If it's further away, it might be just traditional lifts. And when I say traditional lifts, for example, say we're doing a trap bar, further away at fight camp it might be band-resisted trap bar, something like that.

And then basically my accessories will depend on probably the type of fighter. But there's going to be some neck progressions, some type of wrist work. Sometime I'm just looking for areas that are probably prone to injury within that sport, and I'm trying to basically tick off that just to keep that more robust, more resilient.

Because at the end of the day, I think one, most people think that you just strength train to get more powerful and all this. But for me I think it's just to give my athletes the ability to do more specific fight training. I want them resilient, robust. I want them to not break down and not have any missed sessions.

That's the main thing I'm trying to achieve. Obviously as well, the basics, I want a high general strength, I want to increase the power output of the movement seen within the sport. But I think that ability to make them resilient and robust so they can train more is really important.

James de Lacey21:08

For sure. There's some actually some good research, as you know as well, generally the stronger the athlete, the higher training load they can handle, the less risk of injury they have. So it's an all-encompassing thing, not just a performance thing. It's for them to be able to continue on what they're doing. But I also want to ask, is that two or three times a week you're doing, does that change depending further away from a fight?

Graeme Morris21:31

Guys will traditionally do, I'll have two, then I'll have an option to do a third. And that third session might be a little bit lower in volume. And it's probably just so they can tick it off, get it. It might be on a Saturday morning or something like that where they go, "Oh, I feel good this week, I'm going to do that."

But when it gets into fight camp and stuff like that, I'm just doing twice a week long. Because I want them to focus on their fighting. And also they're doing a lot more sparring, so even during the fight camp and that, I'm very wary about how much soreness I'm creating, because they could be cutting weight, they could be stressed, they're sparring, they could be carrying injuries, they got all these different things. They might be sleeping less because they're anxious about the fight or not sure.

So I'm just worried about how much soreness I'm creating those sessions. So I'm trying to pick off those boxes but without breaking an athlete down. So probably just twice a week.

James de Lacey22:26

Graeme, do you have a preference where your session fits in the day around their training? Is there also a preference during the week on what day it falls on during the week?

Graeme Morris22:26

Look, I tried that whole high-low thing, maybe we just do the strength training on the sparring day so that way all the soreness is mainly on one day, the next day is more aerobic and more technical and all that. It's good in theory. I think you're just trying to find gaps, bro. You're trying to find gaps.

And then when it comes to fight camp and that, the sparring is obviously the most important thing. So you don't want to make sure that you're not cooking them before the sparring session. So I think it's based on the schedule, and the other thing is every gym's different as well. You have sparring, some gyms will spar different nights, then if you got Muay Thai, you're clinching as well, stuff like that.

So for me, I'm just looking at the schedule, I'm trying to find gaps in the calendar where that's going to fit, and that's basically it.

James de Lacey23:44

Especially for probably some of your MMA guys that have to cover BJJ, striking, other special areas against the fence, they got so much to cover. And then when it comes to clinching, wrestling and all that stuff, that's actually strength work really anyway. So, and BJJ, that's all strength work as well. So it's getting that right balance.

Graeme Morris23:44

And that's the other thing, what I found is you see these BJJ guys now, they'll be like, "Oh, I'm going to do [expletive] loads of wrist work and things like that." And then what they do is they overcook all that, and then they go there and they can't grip because they fried themselves. So you got to be careful about what you're doing, what you're putting in there. So it's that balance as well, I feel.

James de Lacey24:16

For sure. I actually want to touch a little bit on, you mentioned Muay Thai, a little more grind because you have that clinch. How are you preparing your athletes, I guess, for that so they're stronger in that clinch, essentially more comfortable? How is that gym work preparing them for that whereas obviously a boxer doesn't really need to touch that?

Graeme Morris24:41

Well, I guess all your general lifts, you got that there as well as your base. But then I got, I like to do specific, I don't know if you've seen it, those overcoming isometrics.

James de Lacey24:41

Oh yeah. If you guys want to see those, I'll check them in the description from Graeme's Instagram. They're good stuff.

Graeme Morris24:41

So I've been doing that for years, actually, probably for two, three-ish years. But we have hug variations for the body lock, then we've got, we use smaller med balls for the head clinch, and we're just changing positions. And basically you're squeezing as hard as possible for seven, eight seconds and then changing positions.

But because for me, I always look at that Verkhoshansky stuff is that your power output is a combination of motor potential and technical mastery. So when guys are clinching, it doesn't matter, or grappling or whatever, it's highly unlikely that guys are putting all their energy into that when they're sparring or their training. Because A, you don't want to kill your training partner, and also you're not going all out all the time, and it's that highly technical element, a lot of it's technical.

But when we do those med ball stuff, it takes away the technical element and it just solely allows you to work on basically your motor potential. So it cuts that technical element out and just allows you to use brute force to try and squeeze the [expletive] out of it.

The other thing I like, with I like a lot of drop-catch things with the back movements. We do machine rows where drop-catch, chest-supported rows drop-catch, chin-ups drop-catch if they have a good base of strength—they have to have a good base of strength, I wouldn't do that if a guy can't do a pull-up. Drop-catch inverted rows, things like that where you're getting there, boom, kind of thing.

Quite often when you see guys Muay Thai fighters, they're clinching, they play, play, play, and when they get it, bang, that's when they lock on. So you want to have that rate of force development there, which I think is really important. You switch, set on as quick as possible, and you play, boom, boom, boom, and you got the position, bang. And you want to have that, you want everything to turn on really quickly and lock that position.

So probably the drop-catch stuff with the back movements, and then probably the specific clinch stuff, which I'd probably call special developmental exercises. I don't know, people can argue, it's always shades of gray, that stuff. Fit somewhere in, continuing.

James de Lacey27:23

Yeah, and I used to overanalyze all that stuff and now I'm just like, yeah, specific, good enough, it's close enough. So then I get asked quite often, and you've probably covered some of these and your answer is probably similar, but what are some of the so-called, in your opinion, the best exercises in terms of exercise selection in the gym, say, for a Muay Thai athlete or a boxer? Do you have anything that you, or maybe you have some go-to exercises that you use within your fight camp that are always there?

Graeme Morris27:50

Yeah, look, as I said before, it depends on the level of the athlete, their training age, because if they've got a low training age, it's going to be very simple program. And a lot of guys don't have a high training age in a gym because they've just done so much specificity of just actual fight training that they don't have a high training age. So that's the first thing I'm going to look for, the low-hanging fruit.

So I'm just going to have the basic squats. I don't really deadlift much, but I do, I'll do trap bar deadlifts, Romanian split squat variations, squat variations, press variations. Yeah, but just your basic compound movements. Then I'm probably going to have some explosive jumps, and that's going to be from low intensity to high intensity. I'm going to have some med ball stuff and I'm going to have some core stuff.

But in terms of specific, I'm not sure. I don't have any favorite exercises, mate. I'm looking at the scenario, I'm looking at the adaptation I'm trying to achieve, and I pick the appropriate tool. I'm not married to any particular exercise, because I could say this is my favorite exercise, but then the athlete goes, "I hate this exercise," or he can't do it because he's injured. He doesn't like it, so he doesn't want to come to my training session because he hates that exercise.

James de Lacey29:22

Yeah. For sure. I mean, people can get married to you need to do these exact things within this program, or essentially you can't do it. And it's like, there's so many different ways to do things. You don't have to do certain exercises. I mean, we know the best program on paper is nothing unless you got buy-in.

Graeme Morris29:49

Yeah. So it's always going to be tailored towards the athlete. You might adapt it along the way, but what I will say is I do want my athletes to have high levels of general strength, and that's going to be your hinge, your squat, your unilateral split squat, push, pull. Then I'm looking at, so that's just a general foundation. Then I'm looking at what's going to increase the power output of the exercise.

So we're talking about punching: I want explosive leg strength. I'm going to want to have high rotational power. I want to have speed of a striking limb. I want to have stiffness on impact. So what are those muscles that need to create that stiffness? Can the athlete produce force? Can they relax and can they stiffen?

So I think you have to have those attributes in there. And if we break that down, you're probably looking at some lower limb strength and power work. You're looking at some rotational power work. You're looking at explosive and some force output through the body, and you're looking at things, you need to have a probably strong, stable shoulder, wrist, hips, on impact. You want to have that effective mass on impact.

James de Lacey30:50

Nice. No, that's perfect. I want to circle a little bit back just back towards conditioning side as well, because you mentioned obviously how you go from, say, an aerobic, low-level side and you funnel through and you get more intense as you get closer to the fight where you're going to touch more that lactic energy system side just to essentially top them up before the fight.

How are you, or what are you doing with that lactic side, and how are you balancing that with maybe the increased demands of sparring and contact training? Are you doing, say, one or two extra sessions, or are you just giving it to them to do within their technical training, or is there another way to balance it?

Graeme Morris31:46

I basically give one or two, probably two, options, and it's normally specific bag work. They can do it off-feed if they want, if they feel pretty bashed up. And I say to them, this is on you, whether or not you feel that you need that, because you're going to have some head coaches that do a lot of this stuff already.

They get chucked in the pit and they got three going, one switching over, switching over, switching over. In Muay Thai you see them clinching all the time. You'll see it in MMA. You see when City Kickboxing do it, one to the other, and it looks horrible.

Do you want to put that back on top? That's when, actually, even though you want to cover that lactic stuff, that's when some of that low-intensity running or something might come in place. So even though I say that's what I'm doing, there's still leeway there, because guys might be getting so much of it that we want to cross the gap and we want to give them that low-intensity stimulus so they can recover between sessions, so they feel better.

And then also some guys will, they will go crazy if they don't run or if they don't do something low-intensity because they feel like that helps with their weight. What I feel like, if they're not doing it, someone, the opposition, is doing it. They're like, that guy's doing more than me, and that can mess with your head. So I give guys options.

James de Lacey33:00

That's a nice way of doing it, to give options and just leave it up to the fighter to take charge of their own training, depending on how they feel.

Graeme Morris33:00

Yeah. And with your own training, some days you're like, oh, I'm not doing that. That's what I had planned today. I don't, but I'd rather not do it. Here's a low-intensity session. And then some days you're like, oh, today I had a low-intensity session planned, but it's different to, say, combat sports different to, say, field sports stuff. Because you can push it harder in field sports. If you push it, you cook someone and you tear their hammy, you're out for five weeks.

You're not really getting this soft tissue stuff so much in combat sports. So I feel like you can push the volume and intensity a little bit more. You might, if guys, you don't have these overuse and everything's holding up, you can push that if they feel good, because the ramifications, unless the ramifications, you're not getting soft tissue injuries, that groin strain. That's pretty rare in combat sports.

So I feel like, today might be a low-intensity session, but hey, I feel good, I'm going for it. But I'd say today had a high-intensity session planned, but I don't feel good, here's a low-intensity session, just so you get something done and you're ticking it off and we're just trying to get closer to our goal.

James de Lacey34:24

No, where are you fitting that conditioning within a training week? Is that, again, just finding slots, or are you trying to slot this maybe after a technical training session?

Graeme Morris34:49

Yeah, it depends, man. It depends. I know that's a cop-out saying that, but I'll leave it up to them. Sometimes they might tack it on to the end of their session, but their session might have been too hard, so they might have an off day somewhere where they feel like they can get it in. I'm really leaving that up to them.

James de Lacey34:49

Yeah. No, because they'd say, "Hey, I've got time after the class and I still feel okay. Okay, this is what you do." But, "Look, I'm cooked after doing this session, but I have a space in this calendar here, I'm going to do it there."

So, let's, we've talked mainly about, I guess you could say, high-level, elite, professional fighters, how they can prepare. Let's come down to, say, the hobbyist, maybe that's looking to compete, I don't know, club competition once or twice a year, kind of thing. Maybe they train three, four times a week, if that. What are some strategies they can use then?

Let's start with the conditioning side. We're talking about that now. What are some strategies they can use, essentially, after listening to this podcast, things they can start implementing into their training outside of the technical work? What would you recommend for them to do? Very general question, I know.

Graeme Morris35:43

Yeah. Outside of the technical training, well the first thing I do is, can you fit in 10, 15 minutes after your class? Most people, time-poor, right? You're already there. You've already made the effort to get there. Can you get 10, 15 minutes on top? And that might be, that might just be specific bag work. Maybe you can't get the training in the morning. Maybe you can just do some running, some shadow boxing, some skipping, because you don't have that time to get...

James de Lacey36:34

Do you think you can micro do that aerobic conditioning? So if you did say 15 minutes almost every day, you think that would provide the similar value as having to do a longer session a couple times a week?

Graeme Morris36:34

I would say that if you're doing those smaller sessions, I'd probably say you have to lift the intensity. Like I wouldn't be doing low, low, low intensity because that's like, I don't think that's going to drive any adaptations for shorter periods of time.

But I think for the general person anyway, they're probably going to be doing, they're not going to be doing like 45 minute road runs. They might be going for a 20 minute road run, so obviously the intensity is going to be higher. You're going to be pushing up that next bracket, so rather than working the capacity you might be working power to drive adaptations that way.

But yeah, so I'd probably say okay, if you can't get to the gym you can do something specific. You can skip, you can shadow box, you can find and make hit pads with, you won't have a bag at home, and then or you can just run. And then if you go to class just tack on some stuff at the end.

James de Lacey37:25

Nice. Do you have a heart rate range, say if they're going to look to target say capacity versus that aerobic power you mentioned moving up that bracket?

Graeme Morris37:51

To I'd have to look up Joel Jamieson's stuff because you probably know what off the top of your head what is it?

James de Lacey37:51

Yeah, like capacity you're looking at like 120 to 150. You're looking at power above 160ish close. So capacity is basically cardiac output, and yeah, that means the... Yeah, so I'd say power is probably anything below lactate threshold I guess. Just below that.

Actually, listen to a really good thing the other day: 180 minus your age gives you the upper level of your aerobic, estimated 180 minus your age. So 30 years old, 150 gives you that top level of essentially where you want to train that capacity level. So that's something that you guys can use too for those listening.

And then let's touch on the strength side too for say a hobbyist boxer or Muay Thai athlete, whatever, the same parameters. How often should they go to the gym and what should they do in the gym essentially? Very general question again.

Graeme Morris38:53

Okay, I'd probably start, what I'll start with is just twice a week. I'll be looking at your general mobility for your hips, some shoulder prep, then I'll be looking at maybe a jump variation, some type of jump.

Then I'll be looking at upper body, sorry, lower body. One day you might have a hinge, the other day you might have a lower body push. So when I say that, one day might be an RDL or a trap bar deadlift, the other day might be a squat or a split squat.

Then I'll be looking at upper body push pull, one's vertical emphasis, the other one's horizontal on the other day. And then I'll just be looking at my accessories. Do I need some neck work? Do I need some extra shoulder work? Do I need some extra core work?

I'd keep it simple like that and I probably have three exercises and I just use it as like a circuit. I might have say abs, shoulder, and another lower body one or something like that.

And if I'm a boxer I'll be doing some neck work. If you're a Muay Thai boxer you might be able to get away with it because you do a lot of clinching, so sometimes you don't need the extra neck work because sometimes that can irritate your neck if you're clinching multiple times a week.

James de Lacey40:15

For sure. And if you've got an irritated neck you can always get an Iron Neck. If you go down the description I've got a discount code for anyone that wants to get one.

But touching, I had something I was going to say now and I completely forgot. The whole Iron Neck thing threw me off. Yes, that's the one. So regarding, there's obviously always debate, people are saying hey double leg or bilateral lower body exercises, single leg lower body exercises, one's more specific for fighting than the other. Obviously use both, so I'm pretty sure I know what your answer is anyway. But for the listeners, do you think that there needs to be emphasis put on one or the other for combat athletes, or is it just hey we just do a bit of both?

Graeme Morris40:42

Both. Yeah, yeah, I thought so. Yeah, simple way.

Yeah, and then if one phase has a little bit more bilateral, the next one's probably going to have a little bit more unilateral. But sometimes I might have combination of both in anyway. I'm looking for that because I'm looking between that balance of force from the bilateral and then working more tissue quality and that through the probably the unilateral stuff.

But now even with the unilateral stuff you can do hand supported stuff and it can drive a lot of force output. So I've been doing a bit of that, especially my own training. I really like it. And you probably argue that's not even, that's bordering on not even single leg, it's like that in between.

James de Lacey41:12

Yeah, so yeah, I think both man.

Graeme Morris41:12

Yeah, that's cool. I haven't been able to play around with the hand supported and stuff.

James de Lacey41:40

I just don't have... For anyone who's listening, it's hand supported like squats. You're essentially holding like handles on the rack, but you have to have something like a safety squat bar, so you need to have something that sits on your upper body where you don't need to support it with your hands. And then you can do heavy, heavy lower body movements and support yourself essentially.

Graeme Morris41:40

And I really like the safety bar squats for athletes, anyone, because a lot of them struggle with front squats unless you have straps.

James de Lacey41:40

But I really, I really like the safety bar squat.

Graeme Morris41:40

And because it allows guys to really have more of an upright squat. So that way my squats are more squatty and then I keep my hinges. Otherwise sometimes you see guys that squat actually looks like a hinge, a good morning. You're not really, you're not really...

James de Lacey42:29

Yeah, and you're not even really changing the tissue that you're after. It just ends up looking like a powerlifting squat, which is not really what I'm after if you're trying to get that balance of all the different muscles over a week.

All right, so I wanted to, one last question I just wanted to touch on with you before we finish this up, and that is the idea of the oscillatory isometrics or AFSM if you want to go down the Cal Dietz route. And for anyone listening, essentially it's like quick fire rapid, I guess you could say bobbing up and popping up and down if you want to make it into layman.

So do you want to give us an idea of why you're using this isometrics? I'll link a video from Graeme's Instagram, I think you've got one on there, down in the description. Why you use it and essentially what you're trying to get out of doing it essentially?

Graeme Morris43:25

Yeah, I mean there's a few different variations that Cal has in that, but I've kind of created a few of my own. But one of the reasons I like it is because basically if you look at, I think Matt Vivas or whatever it was, that Russian scientist, he talked about, and whether or not this is legit I'm not sure, but they talk about the ability of the highest level athlete is not about how much force they can necessarily produce, it's about how quickly they can relax as well.

So and if you look at sports in general we know there's this impulse of force and there's this period of relaxation. For example, you look at the strike. Joel Jamieson talks about the double peak contraction. You got, I talk about a tea towel. Like when you're doing the dishes and that, and you wrap it up and you wet it and you flick it, and then you want it to relax and then when you're trying to hit someone on the ass with it that's nearby, you stiffen it again. So you got that contraction, relaxation, that contraction.

James de Lacey44:15

A good analogy.

Graeme Morris44:15

Yeah, that was, yeah, I haven't heard that one yet. You can claim that.

Yeah, so you flick it, you relax it, and you want to contract and that's what happens in striking sports all the time. Kicking, punching, you want to have that produce the power, relax halfway through, on impact stiffen.

So I think this is one of these methods that allows you to train that impulse, that relaxation, that impulse. Other thing is I think it's probably a little bit more specific to what happens in sport. It also probably allows you to deload the athlete so they're not lifting, I was talking about before, specifically in fight camp you want to reduce some of that muscle soreness, you want to reduce the load on the body so that it doesn't create so much fatigue. So it does that.

The reflexive plyometrics is the one that with the band, I don't know if you've seen it, the band, it's anchored into the ground. Now for me this is plyometrics for your hip. So in traditional plyometrics guys, a lot of the work is going through your ankles, okay? Whereas when you...

Do these reflexive plyometrics, I'm doing them in a position where it's kind of where athletes are producing the power from their strikes. So it's very specific to joint angle specific, and then they're working up and down in this range and it's plyometric in nature around that hip region where they're trying to produce that power. So it's quite a more specific to producing that power for your hips then some of the other oscillatory work we do is in the weakest region. So say if we're doing bench press work in that weakest position, if you're doing rows, you're working that bottom position, the weakest position.

So in a traditional set you might only get five reps out. All of a sudden you're hitting 15 reps in that weakest position but under speed. I think that might carry over elsewhere.

So we do a reflexive ply, we do a squat variation, a split squat variation. I use the oscillatory with some presses, some rows, some RDLs. And I also do it with the core actually, with some wood chop variation, pallof press. I really like work, it really likes it, gives those guys the ability of the core to contract and relax, which is I think is really specific for Combat Sports in sports and general. That core stiffens and relaxes, stiffens, relaxes.

And we also do it with our med balls as well sometimes. Like we do like the fake med ball chop a few times and in for, so again that stiffening, stiffening, stiffening, rotational power, learn to decelerate and stuff like that.

James de Lacey47:01

Is this purely a peaking modality you're using later?

Graeme Morris47:01

Traditionally use it as a peaking modality probably three to four weeks out. And I probably only do it with my athletes that have a good foundational strength. If they're weak as [expletive] and I don't have, haven't earned the right to do it, I probably won't do it.

James de Lacey47:01

Yeah. No, that's awesome. Just, sorry with that, when people look at it they're like, oh, people need to realize that's just the icing on the cake. You know, these are one percenters, these are two percenters. We still got all these other things in play that we're still working on. That's just kind of like the sprinkle at the end.

Graeme Morris47:30

This is not this is not the Instagram guru doing things for Instagram that he's doing all year round. This is everything else done. This is Joel Jamieson, what's the other guy's name, the other one? There's another one. Oh, there's another guy, this athlete. I don't know, he's got thousands of followers and I just look at it and I'm go, this is garbage.

James de Lacey47:56

That's most of Instagram, isn't it? All good. Well, thanks for coming on, Graham. I'm going to link your Instagram below as well. But I've had a couple of kickboxers ask me about online training. But if these guys, if they're listening, if you wanted, if they wanted to get in touch with you about online training, or if anyone else listening we're thinking about getting a coach to help them online, how would they get in touch with you?

Graeme Morris48:23

Probably even my website, which I don't even know, I think it's graememorris.com or you can fill in there. Or just go for Instagram and that's Graeme Morris.

James de Lacey48:23

Sweet, I'll link that below too.

Graeme Morris48:23

Yeah, that's probably easiest way to be honest.

James de Lacey48:23

Perfect. Well, thanks for coming on, I appreciate it.

Graeme Morris48:23

No worries, bro. Thank you. Cheers.