Maximizing Boxing & MMA Strength & Conditioning Performance w/ James Langford (SSOF Ep 111)

James de Lacey2:15

Yeah, there's definitely a few things that I miss, and I'm sure you missed, about working professional sport. Having the same athletes all the time, the same team, you're always together. But then there's things that I just, the negatives just so far outweigh the positives in certain aspects, like dealing with certain coaches, the meetings, the politics that goes on, the pay. It's crazy man.

But when you're at the tournaments or at the competitions and you're winning and you win things, dude, that feeling, there's nothing better than that feeling.

James Langford2:39

Yeah and I think that's, you've summarized it really well there from my perspective, which I think if I reflect back on it and someone said to me right now, right private sector or pro sport, where are you or what would you rather do, I'm private sector for many many of the positives that that gives. I think from my experience there's so many more positives to that private sector, but the positives of pro sport are the big things that, me playing rugby growing up and being involved in team sports, being a little bit now removed from the team slightly in the private sector, I really, I do miss it.

There are certain elements of just being part of a big team, seeing the same group of athletes in the gym day in, day out, all working to the same thing, yeah, coaching big group sessions as opposed to one-to-one. There's some, and I don't get me wrong, I love the one-to-one stuff, yeah there's just some aspects that you, you can never probably have the best of both worlds I don't think, because that job doesn't exist I don't believe.

Maybe it does, I need to keep my eyes up for it. But yeah, private sector all day every day, but the some of the big pros of professional sport I miss 100%.

James de Lacey3:34

Yeah for sure. I think a good way to get this podcast going is it's been a couple of years and you just, last time we talked, you just shifted out of Taekwondo. So we're interesting to know, has your training philosophy or maybe the way you train your current fighters, has anything changed since maybe back then in terms of what you're doing, or I guess anything really changed at all within the training?

James Langford4:23

I'd say majority no. I think a lot of my training philosophy is is very similar. But I think a lot of that stems through of coming through the EIS, now UK Sport, kind of pathway for a long while. I think you, I suppose almost develop into a certain characteristic of practitioner, and that's definitely carried with me into the private sector.

But I think one of the big things that I always felt I was a bit clear on before, but now more so than ever, is probably just around clarity of purpose or clarity of adaptation and what we're trying to get within the training sessions. I think I'm probably much more anal with that now than I ever have been before. And I think a lot of that stems from now being in the private sector.

In GB Taekwondo, although there'd be times that we didn't control things in the schedule, but we could have conversations with coaches and influence things and I'd see the athletes five, six days a week and have conversations with them about all elements of of what they're doing. And you could speak to all the practitioners around them. Suddenly I don't have that. I think the guys that I see the most, I see twice a week for an hour.

And anytime I'm talking to coaches, it's probably through either very quick face-to-face meetings or WhatsApp messages. So I've developed this approach now where I need to be super critical and super confident of what my program is giving that athlete and only really deliver that. I think I'm just a bit more probably thorough with my programming because I'm aware that I have less, not less influence on the rest of the program, but I'm able to have less conversations around what's going on elsewhere and able to influence less things. So I need to be much more directed in in what I'm doing.

James de Lacey5:57

So what are some of these adaptations there that you're really dialing in on?

James Langford6:25

Yeah, I think I did about six, 12 months ago, I did a mentorship with Chris Beardsley because one of the things that I wanted to be really crystal clear on was things along, we always talk about being adaptation-led when it comes to programming, but actually really fundamentally understanding, if we are trying to develop strength, what are the physiological changes that we actually need to elicit to do that, and then what are the characteristics from the exercises we need to do to achieve that.

So I think diving into things like understanding, if we are trying to develop tendon stiffness, that really the loads that we need to have to elicit that. And if we go above a certain point somewhere in that like 8 to 10 RM, we're probably not going to develop that tendon stiffness within strength training. If we're looking to try and develop, particular with fighters, if we're trying to develop power, then we need to be having exercises in the program that are very simple to perform, have minimal fatigue, and can allow the athlete to really generate a high level of motor unit recruitment.

So there's that, that for me the the mentorship I did with Chris was really really influential because anyone who follows Chris or looks at any of his work knows he's a non-nonsense guy. And I think that that really helped me be more critical with understanding at certain times what this athlete needs from this training program and just been really critical. Are the exercises that that I put into this program actually going to help elicit that? And if not, then it might look nice and it might flow nice, but it's got to go.

James de Lacey7:58

It's Chris, did he write Strength is Specific, was that his book?

James Langford7:58

Yeah, so he wrote Strength. Great book. He has a Patreon account as well which I've been a member for a little while and he puts loads of his research up there. But yeah, he does a mentorship that's, it's like three months long and you have, every week you basically have a call with him where he blows your mind and gives you loads of reading to do for an hour. For me personally was probably the right thing I needed at the right time and nice.

James de Lacey8:25

Yeah, if anyone's interested in, if you just search Strength is Specific Chris Beardsley, I think on Amazon I think the book was like a dollar, I don't know if it's still a dollar, about two pound or something. But it is, I think coaches, when we talk about being adaptation-led, that book for me and a lot of Chris's work is it's a non-negotiable of stuff that I think to understand approaches.

James Langford8:49

Yeah, that influenced a lot of my stuff too around, I guess...

James de Lacey9:14

High velocity strength training versus maximum strength training, seeing the differences and what you're trying to achieve and things. Highly recommend if anyone listening to definitely check that book out as well. I'll try to throw it in the description when this goes up with the recording. I might not remember, but either way you guys can search it there as well.

So you obviously mentioned about, for example, developing power. You're looking for something that's simple, easy to perform. Does that mean Olympic lifts are typically not part of that, or you're doing more loaded jumps and things like that?

James Langford9:37

My thing with Olympic lifts with the cohort that I work with is I think if I was to have a fighter or an athlete come to me either having done a big bout of them previously, so had a reasonable understanding of them, or was quite young, probably more developmental athlete, it's probably something that I would utilize. But the vast majority of fighters that I work with, one-on-one at the minute, are all professionals. They're either professional MMA guys, they're professional boxers, and you got some people with some big followings too, right?

James de Lacey10:09

Yeah, I've been pretty lucky. A few of the guys I've worked with, Leon Murphy in the UFC, I've done a few camps with him. Brendan Loughnane, PFL world champion in 2022, did a few of his camps when he was in the UK.

James Langford10:38

Most recently, Lawrence Okolie, who's just won the bridgerweight belt out in Poland, worked with Lawrence. So there's a few relatively high-profile boxers and MMA guys, and also some guys that are coming through now as well.

So I'm really fortunate that pretty much everyone I work with in my private sector one-to-one anyway is a professional MMA fighter or professional. And that really influences what I do, because the way that I think about it is these guys aren't amateurs where this is about building experience before turning pro. Every fight for these guys matters, I should say.

And that's where I come back to with Olympic lifts. If I go back to that initial point I said about being really adaptation-led with my programming and being really crystal clear on what I'm trying to achieve and why, I always struggle to come back to this point—and this is just my belief—but have I got the time to dedicate to this to almost not get a physiological change right now, but maybe in 12, 18, two years time then utilize it? Probably not, and that's just my opinion.

So I don't really utilize a lot of Olympic lifts. But a lot of my main thing for the development of power really is a lot of heavy strength-based work and then a lot of relatively lightly loaded, whether it's med ball throws, bodyweight jumps, plyometrics. I will do some loaded jumps with some of my MMA guys, but I tend to almost take this polarized approach. It's either your heavy strength work or it's your much higher velocity jumps, throws, and very little in the middle.

Unless you probably already have a high level of strength or a high ability to express power and move at a very high velocity already. If you have those two things, I'll probably do some loaded jumps and things with you. But if not, I'm probably going to focus on those two things first.

James de Lacey12:33

It's funny because you see a lot of videos every now and then of maybe fighters or athletes doing heavier loaded jumps or even just Olympic lifts. And you watch it, and because they don't have that training underneath them or they aren't as well skilled in the Olympic lifts, the movement's really slow, it's not snappy. And it's kind of like at that point, is it worth doing?

You mentioned for your guys no, because they have camp, camp, fight, fight, fight, fight. Maybe for a developmental fighter potentially it might be worth learning, but as you mentioned, if the intent's not there in the lift, why do it? Because you're not going to get what you want out of it.

James Langford13:00

Precisely. One thing that, going back to again, I probably talk about it a little bit on the podcast, but going back to some of the stuff that I spoke to Chris about: if developing a high level of strength is a be-all and end-all, but if you have a—if you're lacking in a high level of strength, you're probably lacking in your ability to really recruit those fast-twitch, high-threshold motor units.

So if you've got a poor level of strength development, doing a lot of loaded jumps probably isn't actually going to be enough of a stimulus to really increase that level of motor unit recruitment. It just isn't going to be.

If you've got someone who already has a high base level of strength, then they probably do have the ability to tap into those high-threshold motor units and actually begin to create an adaptation around being able to tap into more and more of those higher threshold, essentially. But if you haven't got that, all the loaded jumps in the world probably—it will help you develop that to a degree, but it's a poor tool to utilize.

You'd be much better going probably a block of strength work to just develop your ability to generate high levels of force before maybe then trying to look at that further down the line.

James de Lacey14:16

Do you have any general standards then you like to adhere to if someone is strong enough?

James Langford14:16

I tend to use force plates a lot for my initial profiling and profiling. It varies person to person, but for a lot of my MMA guys in particular, I'll really look to try and get over a four times body weight IMTP pull. I think if any of those guys are under a four times body weight IMTP, then strength is definitely a big part of what I'm trying to develop.

Not because I think it's mandatory for them to be over four, but I think their ability to then squeeze—their ability to then start to transfer some of that into power, speed, we're going to be limited by their inability to tap into those high-threshold motor units. Unless obviously someone is very strong but they're just carrying a load of weight because they're off camp, then that might change a bit.

James de Lacey15:10

That's fair enough. And that's I guess for people who don't have force plates and stuff, I guess we could go by the general standards of one and a half to two times body weight squat, two to two and a half times body weight. It's tough when you're giving strength standards on just basic lifts because there's a skill component to it on top of that. Just because you squat that much, does that really matter versus outputs you're generating doing other things? But just I guess for people who don't have that, that could be something to go by.

James Langford15:35

100%. I think if—in one of the gyms that I work at, I'm fortunate enough that I have force plates there and I keep them there. And in one of the other gyms, one of the MMA gyms, I don't have force plates. Sometimes I'll take them with me, but when I do a lot of testing for some of the MMA fighters there, I revert back to your standard hex bar deadlift percentage body weight.

I think the challenge with going off any of your three-rep max, five-rep maxes, there's a huge coordinative element that is going to influence that, just how well you can actually squat. It's going to influence massively—anybody knows your ability to express force in that lift.

So something like a—if someone gets over a 2.2 times hex bar, because there's minimal skill involved in that, I know they've got a decent level of strength. And that's probably not going to be one of the lowest hanging fruit. There's going to be better things that we can spend our time on.

James de Lacey16:21

Nice. So there's probably people, fighters, listening to this who are in similar situations where maybe they only do have two hours per week for their strength and conditioning, some of your guys do who come to you. What should they—I mean, obviously it's individual, but there'll be general things—what should they be focusing on in those sessions, or in those two one-hour sessions that they have?

James Langford16:47

I think my first recommendation to any sort of fighter—and I've done a few posts on this on my socials a little bit—is about actually really trying to develop clarity on what you're using your strength and conditioning for. Because I think it's really easy to be like, well, and I sometimes preach a little bit as well, but to go, you know, come in the gym and lift something fast, lift something heavy, do some high reps in these high injury areas. Go just go and do this, this, this, this, and this.

But again, if you're—I always look at my MMA guys and I look at the amount of training they're doing in the week. And I see some of them for one, two hours a week, and outside of that they're doing two, three sessions a day some days, one session a day another.

You've got all these competing elements of your program that are all trying to basically elicit an adaptation. So yes, we can come in and do some jumps and some throws, and we can lift some heavy stuff, and that's great. But you need to actually—

Understand and be really clear on what you want your strength and conditioning to help you with. So that's point one, which is I'd never suggest to anyone just to come in and do lots of stuff for the sake of it. I know that sounds really simple to say, but really sit down and go, what's the priority in my programming? Is it that you do feel you're lacking just some foundational fundamental strength? Because if that's the case, then that should probably form the vast majority of your program.

And yes, you might do some jumps or some throws in a very minimal dose at the start, and you might do some higher repetition capacity endurance type work at the end, but 70% of your session probably needs to be around that strength work because that's your rate limit that you've suggested to yourself. So that's point one for me, and then after that it's basically building the program around it.

So if you feel that power is your biggest weakness, then you need to be choosing exercises that are actually getting you probably moving with intent and with some velocity, ideally that's quicker than movements you might do in the sport. If you recognize that it's a strength issue, then you need to go in and you need to be lifting some pretty considerable weight to try and improve that strength. You're probably not going to get strong enough doing 12 rep, 15 rep maxes. You need to be lifting those heavy weights to try and improve that strength.

If you sit and look at your program and go, actually my conditioning is my biggest problem, then that should probably be reflected in your strength and conditioning session. Maybe you don't need two strength sessions in the week. Maybe you might need two conditioning. If you don't feel your strength is an issue, your power is an issue, then dedicate that time to conditioning.

But yeah, my biggest piece of advice that I always recommend to anyone is, before you decide you're going to do two strength and conditioning sessions and start putting in exercises or looking at what exercise is best for this or this, just really sit down and figure out why you want to do that strength and conditioning in the first place and what's the priority of the session, and then work back from there essentially.

James de Lacey20:04

Nice. Do you prescribe anything, because obviously they're only with you for maybe a couple of hours a week, do you prescribe anything for them to do maybe before after technical training?

James Langford20:32

Yeah, I will try to, and it's really athlete dependent. Some guys I could tell to do stuff and prescribe stuff, but that's one of the biggest differences between the private sector and pro sport, right? If I give guys stuff to do after training when I'm in GB Taekwondo, I stick my head in the door when training is finished, I'm like, you with me? But in private I'm saying, right, you do this, and sitting there with my fingers crossed hoping they do it.

So I will try in some aspects. If there are guys who have reasonably big injury histories or areas that they have chronic ongoing problems with, then I will try and either give them some loading to do on those areas, maybe either before or after training. Or additionally, it might be some conditioning type work again before after training.

But the majority, particularly if it's relating to some injury mitigation work or some loading that's hopefully going to offset their chance of injury in the future, I'll try and do that in the session with me so that I can make sure it is of the appropriate loading, they are performing the movements that I need them to do correctly.

And generally it's probably conditioning or maybe grip circuits or cal circuits or those type of things I might give them to do after training, which if they don't do isn't the end of the world because hopefully in the sessions with me we're doing all the big important stuff anyway.

James de Lacey21:48

How are you programming the conditioning? They're with you with two one-hour sessions. It seems like the strength power stuff is probably the most important stuff you're working on in those sessions. So the conditioning then you're prescribing for them to do outside, maybe after the technical trainings?

James Langford21:48

Yeah, basically. So in the sessions with me I don't really do any conditioning at all. I think I want to try and, again coming back to being really clear on what the purpose of that session is, I want to try and have as little competing inputs for adaptation as possible. Because hey, this is just two hours, in some cases guys that I see once a week, this is just one hour of 16 hours you're going to do this week.

So I need to get as much as I can from this hour to try and help improve your power, your strength, whatever it is they're with me for.

So the conditioning work is probably the stuff that I give them to do externally. And it depends. Some of the guys that I work with and the girls I work with, I've just got to know a little bit through spending a lot of time with them, watching them. I am quite fortunate that particularly at one of the MMA gyms I'm at, the timings that I coach some of their guys there match with the timings where some of them are on the mat and also sometimes where sparring is going on, so I can actually see a bit of eyes on some sparring.

But some of it comes from just getting to know them and watching them training and having conversations with them. Others, I'll do some energy system profiling with to develop a better understanding of where they sit, and then I'm programming the conditioning from there basically.

I'll tend to, particularly again with a lot of the MMA guys that I work with, bias a lot towards some of the lower intensity conditioning. Now it's not because I think some of the higher intensity stuff probably wouldn't elicit maybe some of the same changes in them. One of the big eye-opening things for me was one of your podcasts actually, with Andrew Huberman, probably one of the more popular ones. I can understand why as well.

But that sort of opened my eyes to a bit of a different way of thinking to what I was doing. But I think for a lot of the MMA guys, particularly in the gyms that I work with, because of the volumes and sessions and stuff they're doing a day, I've found that if I sprinkle a little bit too much high intensity in there, they're just cooked. They just seem to overcook themselves. Because again, it's not pro sport. I haven't got full say into their schedule.

They might have a jiu-jitsu session the following day, but really no one's too sure if that's an intense day, if they're just doing some tech work, if they're doing rounds, if they're just doing loads of lives. No one's probably too sure until they turn up on the day. So I am probably a little cautious with the conditioning I give them. I'll try and do a lot of off-feet, lower intensity work.

And then only start to change that and increase the intensity and go to probably some more of your higher intensity intervals or your alactic kind of glycolytic work if some of the feedback they're giving me feels like it warrants that. If they're sort of saying that they're feeling the recovery is good, but actually they're just not able to work at the intensity that they want to, or my shoulders are really burning out as I start to throw some striking exchanges, then I might change my conditioning approach.

But generally I'll go pretty low level, low intensity with my conditioning and hope that they just get enough from everywhere else within the chaos of the sporting environment that really helps.

It's interesting as well, there's other, I say that with my MMA fighters, but with some of the boxers I work with, and this was the case with Lawrence actually, his boxing coach has a very set conditioning model that he follows. And I think this is where it's quite important in the private sector to, one of the biggest things that I probably learned quite quickly, understand your role in the team.

So for some of my boxers, their boxing coach has a very set conditioning model that they follow. And this guy, Joe Gallagher, has produced what is it now, it's like seven world champions come out of his gym. So I'd be a bit of a fool to sort of sit there and go, I don't know if I agree with this model. Clearly it's working, it's doing stuff for his guys.

So with them I'm actually very hands-off on the conditioning, and if anything I'm probably structuring a lot of my strength session to try and support the conditioning that I know he has them doing. So that's another side of it, which I think in the private sector is just, there's no kind of, probably conditioning at GB Taekwondo we had a bit of a conditioning model which is like, hey, this is what we do with our guys.

But I think now in the private sector it's like, well this is what I do with this person because I know they go to this gym and do this and do this, and this is what I do with this person because they actually go to this gym and do this and this.

I probably have less of a model now and more of a slightly individualized, slightly general model that I can fluctuate between some of the fighters I work with.

James de Lacey27:06

That makes sense as well. You mentioned Energy System profiling. What are you doing there?

James Langford27:06

So I tend to, I've taken a lot of inspiration from Gareth Sandford's work. And I used to go down the approach of I do some alactic, maybe 6-10 second power output on a Watt bike. I then might do like a 30 second Wingate, look at their anaerobic lactic, and then do a aerobic test on the Watt bike as well. Like I'd use the Watt bike maximum ramp and take it as this idea of, well, I've got their alactic, I've got their glycolytic, and I've got their aerobic.

And based off my conversation with athlete and coach, I'm going to pick which one we're trying to focus to improve a little bit if there isn't any glaring weak areas and focus on that.

But utilizing Gareth's work a little bit more, and now just kind of polarize it, I'll do sort of a few 6-second max effort sprints on a Watt bike still, because I don't have sort of access to a track or I don't really like doing that testing on a tread—it doesn't work very well. So I'll do it on a Watt bike, look at their like a 3-second average, or their highest 3-second average power output on the Watt bike.

And then I'll get them to do a 6-minute just max effort aerobic. And I'll start to plot almost like their speed reserve, but I know because it's on a bike it's power reserve.

And I just started to do that with some of the guys that I work with, and over time have built up a bit of profile of lots of different fighters that I work with. And then from that, that now helps me guide some of the duration of interval and the amount of the actual volume I might give of a certain conditioning stimulus to try and create that change.

So if I've got some guys who have quite a low power reserve essentially, I'll make sure that a lot of their aerobic intervals are much shorter in nature. Because they're probably, again going off some of the stuff Gareth talks about, they're going to build up higher levels of lactate and hydrogen ions a little bit quicker. So if you start trying to do long aerobic intervals with them, they're probably going to blow their legs off pretty soon and it's not going to be the aerobic session you want it to be.

Whereas the guys who have a much greater ratio of aerobic to alactic, I'll do much longer intervals and again use that to play into their strengths a bit. If I've got some guys who are, who have actually quite probably a smaller ratio between their alactic versus their aerobic—so probably more biased to being alactic, quite fast twitch athlete—I actually probably bias more conditioning at times now towards those higher intensity intervals. Because I'm kind of, my thinking behind it is I'm giving them what they're good at and probably what got them to this point in the first place.

So it's still a bit raw with how I'm probably doing it, and the more data I can collect on guys the better. But it's just a slowly evolving system.

James de Lacey30:13

No, I like the model. It gives you stuff to work from. Are you trying to change that power reserve at all, or is that just for you to see where they fit as a profiling standpoint to what you're going to prescribe them conditioning-wise?

James Langford30:13

I kind of both really. So I'll mainly use it as a bit of a tool to help me understand what I'm going to prescribe conditioning-wise. Particularly because going back to my point earlier with some of the MMA guys, my bias towards lower intensity, more aerobic-based conditioning—for anyone who is probably a more predominant fast twitch athlete, it's really going to influence the work-to-rest ratios and the timings I'm giving them for that aerobic conditioning to make sure it stays at a lower intensity and it doesn't start to build up and cook them and then influence the rest of the week.

But I also use it as a bit of a conversation starter with them or with coaches, just as to talking about, well, let's say we have someone who actually has quite a large gap between their aerobic kind of power, like where they are aerobically, and then their alactic top end. If they are probably more fast twitch biased, it might be a conversation with the coach and athlete which is, do we want to play into this super strength a little bit?

Or actually do we need to try and improve your recoverability to a degree? Do we need to try and increase that aerobic fitness so hopefully you can still continue to operate at this intensity that you do, but you can just recover from it quicker?

And vice versa with the more aerobic guys. Like, are we just trying to play more into your superpower of work? Or are we missing some intensity somewhere that we need to change? And it's a bit of a conversation starter as well.

James de Lacey32:01

Nice. Andrew Asher is actually listening in on the podcast currently. He says there might be a lot of stuff he sat there listening going, "I don't know." He says "can spread it though with MMA guys." I don't know which part of the conversation, Andrew, you're referring to. Maybe let us know. I'm assuming about maybe the high intensity conditioning stuff.

But also want to ask you as well around the biggest problems fighters are facing when they come to you. So you have a lot of guys in the professional area and they probably have many coaches and performing stuff like that too, but they're coming to you for a reason, and that's probably because they feel like they're lacking something or they need something. So are there common problems around a lot of these fighters are facing when they come to you?

James Langford32:29

Good question. I'd say yes in a way. I think when I sit down with the vast majority of fighters, the biggest thing I hear from them is like, "I just, I feel like I want to be strong. I'm not strong enough." But very rarely I would say is that actually the case. I think it's something that psychologically a lot of fighters have this thing of like, "I want to be stronger, I need to be stronger."

But it's always quite interesting, the amount of guys that I do profile and I step away from them like, actually your levels of force production are really, really good. So you feel you're lacking strength, but any profiling we've done shows different. Actually, what is strong to you?

Like the biggest things, and this is where it can be a bit arduous as the practitioner to try and unpick it a lot, is your classic things of like, "I've said I'm not strong enough" or "I'm just afraid of gassing out." Particularly for the MMA guys, I think a lot of them, if I was to ask them like, "What's on fight night? What's your biggest fear?" For a lot of them I think they would say gassing out as opposed to almost being knocked out. Like they just don't want to gas out and end those fights at all.

So it's either just that classic thing of "I'm not fit enough" or "I'm not strong enough"—those are the two general things. But like I say, very rarely when I go through any profiling do any of those things, as far as with me with my S&C hat on are concerned, are really true. So it's then sitting down and unpacking like, "Well, what do you mean by strong? What have you found out?" What they're referring to in that instance really varies.

So there's been a couple of boxers where for them, strong is like, "If someone's closing the distance and I'm going to try hit them with my jab, I want to stop them there and then." Like, that's what strong is to them. And then it's interesting for me as an S&C coach because I'm like, "Cool, that's not strong to me. That's not a strength attribute to me. That's like a, that's almost like speed or a power."

To the MMA guys, it's to be able to take down defense against if they're against the cage, or just be able to, similarly, like when they're hitting these guys, feel like it is really doing some damage or these guys are feeling it. So quite often, my own perception from the group that I work with is, when they talk about strong, they don't mean strong in the sense that we do with an S&C hat on. They'll often mean more down the route of, "I want to be powerful."

But equally I've found there's a huge psychological element. I think a lot of them want to be strong, because they, or feel that they want to improve their strength, because they want to feel a bit more alpha. They want to walk into the ring feeling like they are the stronger one. And that is purely the reason they want to get strong. It's this psychological element for them.

James de Lacey35:37

That's why you train arms, precisely.

James Langford35:37

Yeah, lots of reasons to train arms, but one of them is so that you look good in your shirt when you're walking out.

James de Lacey35:37

Andre just commented now. He's saying RPE is potentially...

Andrew just commented now, he's saying RPM is potentially a better indicator for internal workload and power for external on bike. And I know, I think he's Andrew, I think you've got a paper coming out soon with that. He should be studying for his PhD defense anyway. He's obviously procrastinating now. If there is a paper, it'd be really interesting to read because it was one of the things that after your podcast with Andrew, it really challenged a lot of what I was doing.

I think I would say it probably changed a lot. No, and that's probably down to my own natural, I'll hold my hands up to my own natural biases. But it really got me rethinking a lot about the impact of high intensity conditioning. I think if, yeah, if I had someone who was on a really short turnaround, really quick turnaround, then I'd be all over the high intensity stuff.

James Langford36:31

Up until now, because a lot of the guys I tend to work with, the pros, we tend to have much longer for their camp. So I feel I can probably get where the lower intensity model a little bit more because we've got time on our hands essentially.

James de Lacey36:31

Yeah, fair enough. Whether that's right or wrong, I'm sure they'll disagree. Because you mainly have boxers and MMA athletes in your care, does training philosophy differ much between them in terms of maybe just the strength training side?

James Langford36:54

Yeah, it does. I think there's a few things that I'll do quite differently for my boxers than I will for my MMA guys. I think for boxers there's less of an influence, in my eyes, on maximal force. There's definitely, I think the threshold that maximum force production can influence their sporting environment is much, much lower.

Also, there's the actual exercises that I might prescribe. I'll do a lot more reduced range of motion lifts for some of the boxers than I would do the MMA guys.

James de Lacey37:24

Have you got... I've got it cut off for a second on my...

James Langford37:24

Yeah, I'll do a lot more reduced range of motion lifts for the boxers than I will do the MMA guys, just because of the ranges of motion that they're operating in when they're in the ring. They don't need to be producing force in a lot of real deep hip and knee position. Essentially, they don't need to be in deep knee flexion, deep hip flexion. That isn't the environment that they're in.

So I'll do a lot more reduced range of motion work for them as opposed to MMA guys. And then particularly with the boxers that I work with, because a lot of them are almost sent to me from Joe, and I know that he has almost a conditioning system that he puts them in based off how far they are from their fight. And that involves a lot of running, a lot of track work, a lot of road work.

Particularly for my boxers, I'll go very heavy on foot and ankle with regards to strength. We'll do a lot of really, really heavy calf raises, like sets of five, you know, almost like treating it like we might do a normal compound lift we would have in the gym. Again, really heavy tibialis work, a lot of inversion, eversion work. I'll go really into that foot and ankle because I know there's loads and loads of road work that they're going to have to tolerate.

Whereas with the MMA guys, they tend to do a lot less road work, a lot less road running. But things like neck might become a problem from a lot of the jits and the wrestling and just trying to have postures broken, and forearms and stuff as well. So there are definitely carryovers between the two, but probably the ratios of strength to almost power and high velocity work of the MMA guys is different to boxers.

I'll probably go more power and higher velocity work with the boxers who already have a good level of strength, as opposed to the MMA guys. They might always have a slightly smaller amount of power and higher velocity work in there and more strength-based work, unless they already have a really high relative strength, and then that might change slightly.

James de Lacey39:36

Nice. We have a question in the chat too about how do you tackle mobility for the different fighters? I would assume a fighter with a striking background's got less mobility on the ground and vice versa, say, wrestlers and kicks.

James Langford40:03

I think firstly for me, yeah, it's understanding if it's a problem. I think a lot, there's quite a... and this was something mainly from taekwondo, actually, that I saw that I've carried with me for a while. You would hear some of the taekwondo guys in particular talk about "I want to be more flexible." But if you actually speak to the coach, speak to them, be like "Do you need to?

I know you want to be more flexible, fine, you want to be more flexible, but do you need to? Is there any part of your technical game that you can't improve or that you can't do because of your current flexibility?"

And quite frequently the answer is no. So it's often the almost want to improve mobility was the fact they couldn't do a full split stretch or a full box kind of split, basically. It was almost driven more by the fact that when they were stretching off the end of a session they were limited. They couldn't do a full stretch as opposed to anything technical.

And then so I carry that approach with me a lot with the MMA guys and the boxers in particular, which is if they talk about wanting to improve mobility and stuff, I really want to make sure that one, that is actually what they need. Particularly for the MMA guys, if it's to do with anything jits-related or wrestling-related and it's something at the hips, my biggest thing first off is, well, whatever that lack of mobility that you feel you have and whatever position you're being exposed to where that's a problem in your jits training, for example, you need to just go and drill that loads.

We can do loads of mobility work in the gym in theory, but you know, specific adaptation to imposed demands, you need to go do the thing that's causing you the problem to improve it. And then it'll be, yeah, if there's issues through the hips, I'll really try and do... I won't do much stretching. I don't really do a lot of mobility work in the warmup or give them a lot of mobility work. I'll just really try and expose them to load in those ranges that are causing the problem.

So find a way to progressively overload the issues through the hips that they're having, whether if it's internal or external rotation, whatever it might be. I won't go down the stretching or mobility route. My warmups are pretty short. I don't have guys do much mobility at the end of the session. In fact, I don't do any. It's a case of finding a way that we can progressively overload that area in longer muscle length positions and running with that, whilst the key messaging is still you need to go and drill it. You just need to go do it, because we can do all this but it's still not quite that.

James de Lacey42:43

Yeah, it's funny, funny enough, the loosest my hips have ever been was when we were drilling triangles all the damn time, triangle chokes. And then my hips, they were like, I could actually get into position super easy. Now, I haven't been drilling that stuff a lot, it's just they're back to normal.

James Langford42:43

As you mentioned, right? You've got to actually do the stuff. Yeah, and that's, I think, a thing that sometimes it can be quite easy to get away from a little bit, which is, particularly in the private sector, because there's this kind of... there's an action thing of this person is paying me to help them. It's not, again, coming back to pro sport versus private, in pro sport the athlete has to work for me because I'm the S&C coach there. I am your S&C coach at the moment.

In the private sector, this person is paying you to help them. So there can be this want to have this knee-jerk reaction if someone comes in and says, "You know what, my thoracic spine is feeling really tight at the minute. Can we do a bit of work on that today?" The knee-jerk reaction is, "Cool, yeah, let's do it." But, again, coming back to what I said at the start about clarity of the training session, is this just a short-term thing that maybe you just give them a few movements to do at home, a few cat-cows, whatever? Is it a long-term thing we actually need to dedicate time to? And is it a genuine problem?

James de Lacey44:02

Probably something you could also just throw in between supersets of I don't know, some kind of strength exercise, right? Just to kind of tick the box.

James Langford44:02

Yeah, absolutely. I don't do that. I'm quite down the road of, if I've... again, it's something from some of my conversations with Chris, which is a lot of my kind of strength work in the gym, or anything I'm using to try and develop power or develop force, I won't really superset with anything. Particularly the strength work, because I want as little kind of space being taken up in the brain, in the motor command, by anything else. I want all that attention to be, if we've got three sets of five to try and improve...

Some lower body maximal force, I really want to try and maximize that because again I might only have you twice a week or even once a week. So if there's little mobility based stuff that we feel we need to do, let's find somewhere else in the session it makes more sense to do it. Yeah, I don't tend to do a lot of my programs are pretty boring, I'll put it that way.

James de Lacey45:00

Well, that's the thing, right? Because people can get sold on what's happening on social media with fancy routines and you see a lot of people doing Sprint drills and stuff as part of Fighters trainings and stuff and you sitting there man, that just looks like such a waste of time where you could be doing something else.

James Langford45:28

Yeah, you know, warmups are a big pet peeve for me. They're a big one where I'll see and again it's socials and you see stuff in other gyms, you've got to take pinch of salt because you don't know the context around it. But you know, I come back to my environment, I see some of the guys I work with for an hour a week, some of the pros who are slightly lower level at the minute probably would want to work with me twice a week but probably can't afford to.

So although I might give them programs to do outside, the actual hands-on time I have with them once a week is probably an hour.

It's like I can spend 15, 20 minutes with you doing all these, like all this, or you know, you can come in, we can do a little circuit of just two or three exercises to get some blood flowing and kind of increase muscle temperature. And then I don't know, we're starting with some jumps, let's do a set of submax jumps and then we're into it. And it's you don't need all that warmup stuff that comes before, what's the point? You're probably going to the first exercise you're going to do, you're going to do a warmup set of anyway, so what's that for basically?

James de Lacey46:41

Yeah, that's how I've always done it too. Back when I had 30 or 40 players, my warmup would always be three exercises. It's either maybe addressing common injury areas or putting something in there that they're not going to get from the main program because if you're only lifting twice a week you're going to miss stuff. So you might do some of your extensive plyometrics and stuff in that time and do it in a circuit fashion, get the heart rate up, get warm.

Again, then you can just as mentioned, then you can just go straight into the first exercise once you done that, instead of spending all this time doing band this, band that, you know, whatever the hell else people are doing, 5 minutes of foam rolling before that. So now you're already 10 minutes into the you haven't even started.

James Langford47:06

Yeah, it's, and I have some exercises in my warmup that I just have guys do no matter what. They never change because again, the other challenge in the private sector is timekeeping, right? Because this is sometimes where I think there can also be another challenge which is if I've got Lawrence in the gym with me and we're two weeks out from his World title fight and he's come in 10 minutes late but I know we've got to get this stuff done when the next athlete's coming in after him.

If he knows his warmup like the back of his hands and he's been doing it for a year, basically just the exact same warmup, I can have him start cracking on with his warmup whilst I finish off this really important stuff that I have to finish off with Lawrence. So I kind of keep my warmups very same-y, very short, very sweet.

Because it's I also want this level of autonomy where I am open in the fact that I work hour to hour to hour to hour. And if someone is overrunning a little bit and it is an important person, I kind of need whoever's coming to the gym to not just sit there and wait. I almost need to get to them five, 10 minutes late whilst it's not ideal but then ready to go. So yeah, that's why I'm not a fan of loads of extra additional fluffy warmup stuff because it's, yeah, logistically makes my life easier as well.

James de Lacey48:20

Yeah, that's perfect. I think that's everything I wanted to cover with you today James. Where do you want to send people to follow you and see what you're doing? I see you've got 10K followers on Instagram now.

James Langford48:44

Yeah, so I made a real push, when was it, must have been around July, August time last year, I made a real push. I was like I'm going to spend some time getting stuff into my socials. And yeah, it sort of paid off, played around with a few ads and stuff like everybody does. But yeah, hit 10K which I was pretty about, because ultimately as we were saying a fair bit before, that tends to be for a lot of those guys in the private sector where business comes from.

So if that keeps growing, I'm a happy man. It means kind of something's going right or a lot of people hate me, one of the two.

James de Lacey49:07

What's your handle? What do they search?

James Langford49:07

So it's JL Performance Coach, the initials JL and then Performance Coach. And Instagram is pretty much the primary one that I use. I've got a Twitter, I never put anything on it. But Instagram probably where all my business stuff goes, any kind of snapshots of athletes I'm working with or anything that's kind of on my mind training wise, that's where all that goes anyway. So that's probably the best place to see anything I'm doing and also to reach me.

James de Lacey49:54

Perfect. I'll link that in the description, I won't forget that one, so they'll be there for anyone to go click on. But I appreciate you coming on James.

James Langford49:54

No man, it was good to catch up after what, two years? So yeah, always good to talk.

James de Lacey49:54

Perfect.